Sublime Sound

[PeterA]

It comes down to resolution Ked, always look at the system wires specially power cords first but you can't ignore the front end itself either. Many were designed to sound a certain way no matter what and I've heard decent ones tweaked with all kinds of 3rd party parts which has changed their character with strong coloration.

david

I agree that it comes down to system/room resolution. The curious thing for me is that I use a full suite of Transparent Audio cables and power products, older generation. Many consider these products extremely overpriced junk, but for some reason, I really like their presence in my system.

I recently spent a week doing a direct comparison between two phono stages in my system. I set it up so that conditions were identical. Given the temporary configuration, I was short one TA power cord. I used a stock cord to the power supply of my turntable. The system sounded fine and all was good. This is the way Ron heard it. After Ron left, I boxed up one of the phono stages and sent it away for the trade in. Now I had enough TA power cords, so I put the old cord back on the turntable supply/controller. I swear the sound is slightly better now.

Cables are a complex subject and we all have different experiences with different brands. It is my least favorite area of the hobby to explore. I think David is onto something though because cables, power delivery and tweaks in general, can all certainly change and very often do color the sound.

 

[Ron Resnick]

No, IME all cartridges are very responsive to VTA changes but not all systems or front ends, question of resolution. Many times I've had to switch out phono cables that mask and color so much that VTA changes of even +/- 10mm are barely audible.

david

David, if you had to select a tonearm other than a 3012R, and if this tonearm had to have easy VTA adjustment ability, which tonearm would you select? (Is there any tonearm with a VTA adjustment tower you do not dislike?)

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . . always look at the . . . power cords first . . . coloration . . .

Yay! I just saved $000s on fancy power cords!

 

[MRJAZZ]

I agree that it comes down to system/room resolution. The curious thing for me is that I use a full suite of Transparent Audio cables and power products, older generation. Many consider these products extremely overpriced junk, but for some reason, I really like their presence in my system.

I recently spent a week doing a direct comparison between two phono stages in my system. I set it up so that conditions were identical. Given the temporary configuration, I was short one TA power cord. I used a stock cord to the power supply of my turntable. The system sounded fine and all was good. This is the way Ron heard it. After Ron left, I boxed up one of the phono stages and sent it away for the trade in. Now I had enough TA power cords, so I put the old cord back on the turntable supply/controller. I swear the sound is slightly better now.

Cables are a complex subject and we all have different experiences with different brands. It is my least favorite area of the hobby to explore. I think David is onto something though because cables, power delivery and tweaks in general, can all certainly change and very often do color the sound.

Yes, l have also heard positive, meaningful improvements with different power cords to the power supply of several different tables, both belt and DD.....I know many on this forum think this mere wishful thinking, etc. (PC quality for turntables)....but my experience has been most positive.....

Cheers......

 

[Ron Resnick]

Yes, l have also heard positive, meaningful improvements with different power cords to the power supply of several different tables, both belt and DD.....I know many on this forum think this mere wishful thinking, etc. (PC quality for turntables)....but my experience has been most positive.....

Cheers......

I would not propose to denigrate the point as “wishful thinking.” I try never to question what people believe they hear. It’s entirely possible that different people have different sensitivities, and that some people can hear things other people do not hear.

But I am not beyond asking the question if somebody believes he could hear a difference reliably on a blind test.

 

[ddk]

David, if you had to select a tonearm other than a 3012R, and if this tonearm had to have easy VTA adjustment ability, which tonearm would you select? (Is there any tonearm with a VTA adjustment tower you do not dislike?)

I’d go with the Graham arm Ron.

david

 

[bonzo75]

I would not propose to denigrate the point as “wishful thinking.” I try never to question what people believe they hear. It’s entirely possible that different people have different sensitivities, and that some people can hear things other people do not hear.

But I am not beyond asking the question if somebody believes he could hear a difference reliably on a blind test.

I have done blind tests on power cords and speaker cables and heard the difference, with certain brands. It does not require golden ears. There is a difference. The question is whether you like it or not, and whether it colors negatively or not.

 

[leyenda]

I’d go with the Graham arm Ron.

david

Theres a Pete Riggle VTAF that offers vta adjustability to sme arms. Have you seen or tried one? I dont need it but recall seeing lots of (positive?) testimonials back in the days.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I’d go with the Graham arm Ron.

david

Thank you, David.

 

[ddk]

Theres a Pete Riggle VTAF that offers vta adjustability to sme arms. Have you seen or tried one? I dont need it but recall seeing lots of (positive?) testimonials back in the days.

Sorry Leyenda it looks like pointless junk that much modification lobotomizes the arm.
david

 

[Gardener]

I’d go with the Graham arm Ron.

david

The Graham Elite 9 inch is very good a big step up from the phantom
And very easy to use

The SAT tonearm is equally easy to adjust and has all the features of the elite ( except the bubble level)
It also is completely invisible sound wise

 

[ddk]

The Graham Elite 9 inch is very good a big step up from the phantom
And very easy to use

The SAT tonearm is equally easy to adjust and has all the features of the elite ( except the bubble level)
It also is completely invisible sound wise

12" is where it's at and Bob Graham's alignment jig is so much simpler to use plus one can also have several wands setup with cartridges on the side.

david

 

[Gardener]

12" is where it's at and Bob Graham's alignment jig is so much simpler to use plus one can also have several wands setup with cartridges on the side.

david

Only ever had the 9 inch

Also thought the jig very good
So good why have all the wands?
Have you heard the titanium version?

 

[ddk]

Only ever had the 9 inch

Also thought the jig very good
So good why have all the wands?
Have you heard the titanium version?

When you get the cartridge bug you'll see how handy removable headshells and wands are, even on a 4 tonearm turntable .

I've heard other arms with ti tubes not Grahams they all sound the same very detailed but homogenized and somewhat flat in comparison to steel pipes.

david

 

[Gardener]

When you get the cartridge bug you'll see how handy removable headshells and wands are, even on a 4 tonearm turntable .

I've heard other arms with ti tubes not Grahams they all sound the same very detailed but homogenized and somewhat flat in comparison to steel pipes.

david

Thanks for the advice

 

[PeterA]

The Graham Elite 9 inch is very good a big step up from the phantom
And very easy to use

The SAT tonearm is equally easy to adjust and has all the features of the elite ( except the bubble level)
It also is completely invisible sound wise

If given this choice, and cost were not an issue, I would certainly choose the SAT over the Graham. I have heard neither, though I have heard older Grahams. The bubble level is far too inaccurate based on where it is located to provide any confidence about minute adjustments in arm height. Isn't the VTA tower guide marked with a scale? I would think this would be far more accurate. Build quality is also at a completely different level between the two brands. And now that SAT makes a 12" arm, it is no longer at the 9" disadvantage perceived by some listeners.

 

[Ron Resnick]

The Graham Elite 9 inch is very good a big step up from the phantom
And very easy to use

The SAT tonearm is equally easy to adjust and has all the features of the elite ( except the bubble level)
It also is completely invisible sound wise

The SAT has on-the-fly VTA adjustment?

 

[Tango]

The SAT has on-the-fly VTA adjustment?

Yes...if you really need to adjust on the fly.



Tang

 

[Ron Resnick]

On the fly? You can raise or lower the tonearm while you’re playing a record?

I thought you had to unlock the mount before you twist that VTA dial, and then relock the mount, to play a record.

 

[BruceD]

Where are all the B60 Clones when you need 'em !

BD