Some people might dismiss this information as old hat but I can say the majority of my audio friends WITH a turntable don’t know about it. I’ve set up 5 carts for friends over the last few months and each one of these friends asked why i was using a level.
Sublime Sound
- Thread starter PeterA
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That is quite a story, Jeff. Around here, Madfloyd, our mutual friend Alan up in Maine with his new Technics DD turntable, and I are very eager to keep learning from those who know more than we do. If we can pass that information along, all the better. This is a hobby where we should help each other and be willing to learn from others.
Peter, I wished I'd bought a coffee table book I saw a few yrs back. It highlighted all the skills and trades we've lost. In the AV world, that includes many tape machine skills, installing big CRT PJs, and now tt/cart setup.
The book talked about skills like pleating. My GF's brother in law is one of the last master pleaters in UK. Once that skill is lost, and that means this current older Boomer generation...it's gone for good.
Pleating is more and more offshored to China and E. Europe...w much more inconsistent results.
Maybe in 50 yrs time, the skill to be lost in audio will be how to maximise yr streaming w clocks and filters and LPSs lol.
The book talked about skills like pleating. My GF's brother in law is one of the last master pleaters in UK. Once that skill is lost, and that means this current older Boomer generation...it's gone for good.
Pleating is more and more offshored to China and E. Europe...w much more inconsistent results.
Maybe in 50 yrs time, the skill to be lost in audio will be how to maximise yr streaming w clocks and filters and LPSs lol.
I use and like this one. It was sold separately on eBay but came out of a Feickert Adjust+ kit. You can see I've got Azimuth at 1 degrees. It takes some practice, but you can get it to balance reliably atop a Kuzma headshell which doesn't have a flat surface.
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Haha...I have a small spirit level built in to my tonearm. Helped by the fact my armwand is a flat 1cm wide piece of carbon fibre. Azimuth so easy to check.
Apparently not until they break and then they can be replaced very easily. I have some replacements that came with the turntable package. I’ve had this turntable for seven years without incident.
There can never be too much education and repetition; any efforts should be welcomed rather than dismissed. The 'staircase' myth about the digital signal still hangs around because people are not educated.
The SME people are very diplomatic: "The life of the suspension bands will depend on climatic conditions. If eventually they should stretch beyond further adjustment, replacements (Part No. 1020) are available from SME Limited." - copied from the SME30 manual.
No Peter!- Do not leave the level on the Arm when lowering or raising --at least I never would and I have the Adjust + and that extra level shown --the basic Feickert one is not user friendly at all!
-The Kuzma has vernier Allen key adjust for levelling which is excellent.BruceD
As I hang in while hunkering down, I have some more progress to report:
Being cooped up at home has its rewards as I am listening to a lot of music and continue to tinker with the system, particularly the rack and how my components are supported. A month or so ago, I installed four heavy steel plates under the components in my rack. I also have one under the turntable and under each of the two amps which had been used as ballast plates to pre-load my Vibraplanes. Well, those Vibraplanes are now either removed from the system or deflated, so I have been focusing on the rack. David Karmeli (DDK) told me that he thought my birch plywood shelves were over damped and sucking the life out of my music. I think his opinion was based on a photograph I sent him. He made some suggestions, and I have been experimenting with his advice ever since.
He suggested I install the stainless plates to mass load the rack and then to experiment with different interfaces between the plates and the wood shelves to fine tune the sound. I first tried natural wool felt. It protected the wooden shelves from scratches and the combination certainly sounded better than the bare shelves. However, the steel plates were still fairly well damped because the felt was thin. The steel barely rang when tapped with a metal stick.
On David's advice, I then tried thick rubber O rings under the plates. The plates now rang more because they were less coupled to the dampening wooden shelves. This sounded better and the effect seemed to cumulative, so every time I added the rings under the phono, then the preamp, then both power supplies, the sound improved.
These experiments started with small rubber O rings that I found at the local hardware store, but David had suggested large rings which I eventually found on Amazon. As those arrived, I noticed further improvements over the smaller, thinner rings.
With some extra time yesterday, I decided to try those smaller rings under my turntable plate while I waited for another shipment from Amazon. I figured out how to raise the 250 lb turntable and plate off of the rack's top shelf by slipping it off the edge slightly and lifting it just enough to slip a thin crowbar under the edge and lifting it up high enough to support it on some oak blocks. Now I could insert these smaller O rings under that plate. I then lowered everything and listened.
The earlier successful experiments under the other components did not prepare me for this latest improvement in sound. WOW. I first listened to a male choral group. The singers finally had the proper weight and body that I had not quite heard before. They had been a bit thin sounding with good articulation, but they did not sound quite real. Now, along with added weight and body, the resolution and presence improved too, especially the sense real singers singing in a real acoustic space, the recording venue. It had been somewhat flat sounding before, though I did not realize it then. Now it really took on a sense of realism that I had not heard before from this excellent recording Myles Astor had recommended to me. I then played Art Pepper + ELEVEN, some more choral music, and some symphonic music. It all sounded cleaner and less distorted.
I have been using some DIY IC cables that a friend made for me, and my vdH Master Signature had just returned from its inspection and fine tuning. The cables and cartridge are certainly breaking in and contributing to the overall improvements, but these steel plates and rubber O rings have removed some distortions from the signal so that the music is much cleaner sounding. Solo soprano and trumpets now sound much cleanly without edge or grain. Dynamics are more startling and cleaner. Everything is clearer and more natural sounding. I listened for about eight hours yesterday, enjoying every moment.
This reminds me of a recent discussion my local group was having about different DACs. I mentioned that I sometimes mistake distortion for detail, especially in the upper frequencies. Same with some bass where tightness and impact can mask nuance, texture and articulation.
Somehow, my impression is that distortions have been lowered. I now hear more information in a cleaner, more natural way. Surprisingly, even images in the soundstage are now more solid and localized with increased ambiance, improved boundary dimensions, and more sense of space and air. Interestingly, I also do not hear as much sibilance from the other Master Signature that has not yet been fine tuned.
Though my DIY rack is a lovely creation, and it is super solid and heavy, those birch plywood shelves do not seem to be the best material to support audio components. DDK really hit on something and for almost no cost, the system has really improved. I am really grateful for his advice. I think the rack is now more neutral sounding and it allows me to hear much more of what my components are capable.
The steel plates and rubber O rings are a more significant, (musically relevant as @Mike Lavigne would write), sonic improvement than was the combination of my XP22 and XP27 upgrades from the XP20 and XP25. Yikes, that is scary. Or, perhaps the signal is just cleaner, and I would now more easily hear the improvements from those component upgrades. It is hard for me to say, and I will never know.
The next step is to replace the smaller O rings under my turntable plate with the new larger ones when they arrive. I will also place some under the steel plates supporting my two Pass Labs amplifiers to see if those make a difference. I suspect they will. Thanks again to DDK for another great suggestion.
Being cooped up at home has its rewards as I am listening to a lot of music and continue to tinker with the system, particularly the rack and how my components are supported. A month or so ago, I installed four heavy steel plates under the components in my rack. I also have one under the turntable and under each of the two amps which had been used as ballast plates to pre-load my Vibraplanes. Well, those Vibraplanes are now either removed from the system or deflated, so I have been focusing on the rack. David Karmeli (DDK) told me that he thought my birch plywood shelves were over damped and sucking the life out of my music. I think his opinion was based on a photograph I sent him. He made some suggestions, and I have been experimenting with his advice ever since.
He suggested I install the stainless plates to mass load the rack and then to experiment with different interfaces between the plates and the wood shelves to fine tune the sound. I first tried natural wool felt. It protected the wooden shelves from scratches and the combination certainly sounded better than the bare shelves. However, the steel plates were still fairly well damped because the felt was thin. The steel barely rang when tapped with a metal stick.
On David's advice, I then tried thick rubber O rings under the plates. The plates now rang more because they were less coupled to the dampening wooden shelves. This sounded better and the effect seemed to cumulative, so every time I added the rings under the phono, then the preamp, then both power supplies, the sound improved.
These experiments started with small rubber O rings that I found at the local hardware store, but David had suggested large rings which I eventually found on Amazon. As those arrived, I noticed further improvements over the smaller, thinner rings.
With some extra time yesterday, I decided to try those smaller rings under my turntable plate while I waited for another shipment from Amazon. I figured out how to raise the 250 lb turntable and plate off of the rack's top shelf by slipping it off the edge slightly and lifting it just enough to slip a thin crowbar under the edge and lifting it up high enough to support it on some oak blocks. Now I could insert these smaller O rings under that plate. I then lowered everything and listened.
The earlier successful experiments under the other components did not prepare me for this latest improvement in sound. WOW. I first listened to a male choral group. The singers finally had the proper weight and body that I had not quite heard before. They had been a bit thin sounding with good articulation, but they did not sound quite real. Now, along with added weight and body, the resolution and presence improved too, especially the sense real singers singing in a real acoustic space, the recording venue. It had been somewhat flat sounding before, though I did not realize it then. Now it really took on a sense of realism that I had not heard before from this excellent recording Myles Astor had recommended to me. I then played Art Pepper + ELEVEN, some more choral music, and some symphonic music. It all sounded cleaner and less distorted.
I have been using some DIY IC cables that a friend made for me, and my vdH Master Signature had just returned from its inspection and fine tuning. The cables and cartridge are certainly breaking in and contributing to the overall improvements, but these steel plates and rubber O rings have removed some distortions from the signal so that the music is much cleaner sounding. Solo soprano and trumpets now sound much cleanly without edge or grain. Dynamics are more startling and cleaner. Everything is clearer and more natural sounding. I listened for about eight hours yesterday, enjoying every moment.
This reminds me of a recent discussion my local group was having about different DACs. I mentioned that I sometimes mistake distortion for detail, especially in the upper frequencies. Same with some bass where tightness and impact can mask nuance, texture and articulation.
Somehow, my impression is that distortions have been lowered. I now hear more information in a cleaner, more natural way. Surprisingly, even images in the soundstage are now more solid and localized with increased ambiance, improved boundary dimensions, and more sense of space and air. Interestingly, I also do not hear as much sibilance from the other Master Signature that has not yet been fine tuned.
Though my DIY rack is a lovely creation, and it is super solid and heavy, those birch plywood shelves do not seem to be the best material to support audio components. DDK really hit on something and for almost no cost, the system has really improved. I am really grateful for his advice. I think the rack is now more neutral sounding and it allows me to hear much more of what my components are capable.
The steel plates and rubber O rings are a more significant, (musically relevant as @Mike Lavigne would write), sonic improvement than was the combination of my XP22 and XP27 upgrades from the XP20 and XP25. Yikes, that is scary. Or, perhaps the signal is just cleaner, and I would now more easily hear the improvements from those component upgrades. It is hard for me to say, and I will never know.
The next step is to replace the smaller O rings under my turntable plate with the new larger ones when they arrive. I will also place some under the steel plates supporting my two Pass Labs amplifiers to see if those make a difference. I suspect they will. Thanks again to DDK for another great suggestion.
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Thank you Keith and Ron. I have had some interesting exchanges with my local audio friends about what we think is actually going on with these changes to the rack. Because we are isolating from each other, no one else has heard these changes. I don't even know how to refer to the physics of what is happening. Is it isolation, dampening, tuning or adjusting the dampening to what sounds most natural?
And in a larger sense, I wonder if over-dampening is ever a good thing or can it indeed be detrimental to the sound? My room seemed overdamped before and is now much more lively. I prefer the sound of my V-12 arm without the damping fluid in it, though that might depend on the cartridge being used and the resonance of the arm/cartridge system. The steel plates definitely ring more when tapped now than they did when placed on the wool felt. Is that ringing a bad thing? It does not seem to be. Does that tapping test even matter in the real world?
Perhaps it is all about how materials are used and their implementation and striking the right balance. My V-12 arm is supposedly more "damped" with its magnesium armtube than is the 3012R with its steel armtube. Yet, which arm I prefer is not clear to me right now. They do sound different from each other, but when I use static VTF with the V-12, the differences really diminish. Someday I will do a rigorous comparison switching cartridges, placing both arms on the armpod, etc., but right now they both sound excellent and I just want to listen to music.
Are the plywood shelves over damped, or are they actually transmitting floor-borne or air-borne vibrations into the steel plates and then into the turntable? Perhaps the rubber O rings are now dampening or disrupting that transmission. I have a lot of questions and am curious about what is really happening with these plates versus the plywood. On the other hand, the result is what matters most to me. I hear less distortion and a more natural and enjoyable sound.
And in a larger sense, I wonder if over-dampening is ever a good thing or can it indeed be detrimental to the sound? My room seemed overdamped before and is now much more lively. I prefer the sound of my V-12 arm without the damping fluid in it, though that might depend on the cartridge being used and the resonance of the arm/cartridge system. The steel plates definitely ring more when tapped now than they did when placed on the wool felt. Is that ringing a bad thing? It does not seem to be. Does that tapping test even matter in the real world?
Perhaps it is all about how materials are used and their implementation and striking the right balance. My V-12 arm is supposedly more "damped" with its magnesium armtube than is the 3012R with its steel armtube. Yet, which arm I prefer is not clear to me right now. They do sound different from each other, but when I use static VTF with the V-12, the differences really diminish. Someday I will do a rigorous comparison switching cartridges, placing both arms on the armpod, etc., but right now they both sound excellent and I just want to listen to music.
Are the plywood shelves over damped, or are they actually transmitting floor-borne or air-borne vibrations into the steel plates and then into the turntable? Perhaps the rubber O rings are now dampening or disrupting that transmission. I have a lot of questions and am curious about what is really happening with these plates versus the plywood. On the other hand, the result is what matters most to me. I hear less distortion and a more natural and enjoyable sound.
I had a dealer come to my apartment many years ago to bring me some NBS and Kondo (silver!) power cables. I was not home but my girlfriend at the time (a professional violinist and electrostatic/ribbon speaker lover) let him in and she relayed to me the story that he came in and saw my system and started to criticize various aspects of how I had it setup. In particular, my lack of room treatment and glass equipment racks as well as power cables (of course since that is what he brought). My girlfriend was rather annoyed and asked if he would like to hear the system. The guy said yes and when the cd started his jaw hung open a bit and he shut up and looked quited bewildered at the sound (according to my girlfriend) and stopped his complaints immediately. She told me he admitted that the sound was very good indeed (Acoustat 1+1 (modded), Silvaweld SWC1000 preamp, Sphinx Project 14mkiii amp, Monarchy M24 DAC+DIP, all Goertz cabling...basic power cords, Monarchy power regenerator, Silvaweld phonostage). The power cords were good and helped the system but I gave them back as they were more expensive than the rest of the system! The sound was still quite satsifactory with lower level power cables.
I have been able to consistently get good sound without going to extremes with regard to damping and I have also found rooms and equipment that uses a lot to often sound a bit too dead. I think rigid is good to push the freuquency of resonances where it will mess stuff up less but too much damping seems to rob music as well.
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