System for $5000 that will slaughter $15000 systems all day long

Both are excellent tweeters, but the 2904-7000 is an older tweeter that came out about 14 years ago. It's the flagship ring radiator in the revelator series. The Illuminator series, is their latest and greatest line of products. The tweeter used in this monitor uses the successor to the 2904-7000. Cost wise the revelator version is still more expensive. But this is simply because the manufacturing cost is higher due to them not having discovered more efficient ways to build tweeters yet at the time of the 2904-7000's release back in 2002. Well that is what I was told by the Scan-Speak engineers anyways.

As you can clearly see when comparing specs, most of the nasty spike the 2904-7000 has at the end of it's range was eliminated by using the superior air circ motor system.

View attachment 25892View attachment 25893

Compare the scales in both dB and Fr Blizzard they are not the same. The 3904's spike is before 20kHz that of the 2904 30 to 50kHz. With the graphs shown we can only guess what the 3904 would do at the 2904 level but the power handling specs suggest that it won't be the same as at 90/91dB. As for it still being more expensive well, that doesn't make sense the tooling and R&D should have been paid off long ago. If it is more expensive the more likely answer is because they can charge that much without anyone complaining.
 
Compare the scales in both dB and Fr Blizzard they are not the same. The 3904's spike is before 20kHz that of the 2904 30 to 50kHz. With the graphs shown we can only guess what the 3904 would do at the 2904 level but the power handling specs suggest that it won't be the same as at 90/91dB. As for it still being more expensive well, that doesn't make sense the tooling and R&D should have been paid off long ago. If it is more expensive the more likely answer is because they can charge that much without anyone complaining.

Maybe look again at the graph. The spike on the Revelator starts at around 14k. The tiny spike on the Illuminator is pretty much insignificant as at that frequency it's pretty much out of the range of audibility, and sound is very directional at those frequency's. So at the listening position, it will be flat with the rest of the response anyways. Either way, the spikes aren't much of a big deal. There's other improvements to the illuminators that anyone who's compared them has heard.

The Illuminator tweeter is simply a better tweeter. They don't come up with a successor to an older design 10 years later, using better technology, just to make a driver that preforms worse than the predecessor. They are all good tweeters, even the tweeters from their classic line. Some of them have been in production since the 80's. They can charge more, because it costs them more to produce. The only people still using the Revelator, are designers who came up with their designs before the illuminator came out.

Lots of manufacturers still use the revelator midwoofers and mids as well. But they aren't near as good as the Illuminators.
 
Maybe look again at the graph. The spike on the Revelator starts at around 14k. The tiny spike on the Illuminator is pretty much insignificant as at that frequency it's pretty much out of the range of audibility, and sound is very directional at those frequency's. So at the listening position, it will be flat with the rest of the response anyways. Either way, the spikes aren't much of a big deal. There's other improvements to the illuminators that anyone who's compared them has heard.

The Illuminator tweeter is simply a better tweeter. They don't come up with a successor to an older design 10 years later, using better technology, just to make a driver that preforms worse than the predecessor. They are all good tweeters, even the tweeters from their classic line. Some of them have been in production since the 80's. They can charge more, because it costs them more to produce. The only people still using the Revelator, are designers who came up with their designs before the illuminator came out.

Lots of manufacturers still use the revelator midwoofers and mids as well. But they aren't near as good as the Illuminators.

You might want to look again its the 29* that spikes later than the 3*. Besides the 3 series was designed first and foremost to be a more compact set of solutions (hence the need for air-circ arrangement) while not "giving away much in performance either" (Scan-speak says that) and also goes on to say they are comparable, that's it. Fact remains that the 2904 does have better power handling and does go higher, as you say past the critical junctures. Now what I'm getting at is a horses for courses argument. In the speaker you mentioned the midrange is a 100dB sensitive unit. It makes more sense to match that with a 2904. The extra 3dB plus also allows it to be used on its own in MTM arrangements as well as you might find on say a Gryphon. The 2904 would be overkill with a mid or mid/bass and the natural characteristics of the Illuminator would be a better choice for that. To say that one is "simply a better tweeter" is to not acknowledge intended application. Nobody listens to just tweeters that I know of.
 
well there was fas42 from down under many years ago ;)

Hahahaha I stepped into that one didn't I? Come to think of it, don't we all just listen to what are basically tweeters alone every time we put on dynamic sets of headphones? I stand corrected.
 
The Scanspeak R2904/700000 in my VR5 are fabulous, the best tweeter I have ever heard. The bump above 10k is like the icing on the cake. The Raal might beat it as I am cutting the baffles out for these now. Stay tuned. http://www.selahaudio.com/verita

Its all yours Mike, flame away.

I'm not flaming away. I'm just stating fact's about Scan-Speak's tweeter lineup. Once again since your speaker uses this tweeter, you find a way to make this fact a personal insult.
 
You might want to look again its the 29* that spikes later than the 3*. Besides the 3 series was designed first and foremost to be a more compact set of solutions (hence the need for air-circ arrangement) while not "giving away much in performance either" (Scan-speak says that) and also goes on to say they are comparable, that's it. Fact remains that the 2904 does have better power handling and does go higher, as you say past the critical junctures. Now what I'm getting at is a horses for courses argument. In the speaker you mentioned the midrange is a 100dB sensitive unit. It makes more sense to match that with a 2904. The extra 3dB plus also allows it to be used on its own in MTM arrangements as well as you might find on say a Gryphon. The 2904 would be overkill with a mid or mid/bass and the natural characteristics of the Illuminator would be a better choice for that. To say that one is "simply a better tweeter" is to not acknowledge intended application. Nobody listens to just tweeters that I know of.

They are all good tweeters. Which one is best depends on the application. But the Illuminator lineup is still their flagship. Their very best one is the Beryllium Illuminator IMO. If someone wanted to spend an extra $1000, they could get the Madisound/Taylor NADA which uses Scan-Speak's very best tweeter, combined with the 7" Illuminator mid woofer, and Mundorf supreme crossovers.

Now here's a monitor that will kill pretty much anything for $3000. Would be cool to compare with the Mundorf MA-30.

http://www.taylorspeakers.com/html/nada.html
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...a-2-way-klang-ton-kit-pair-using-illuminator/

NADA_2_full_right_500.JPGnada_3_400.JPG
 
The VR5 do not use a RAAL tweeter. How did I take it personally?

The "Flame away" comment sounded like me explaining the Scan-Speak tweeter line up as explained to me by the Scan-Speak engineers was making derogatory comments about the tweeters your speakers use. I was already banned for pointing out facts related to products to you, so I thought this may have been a start down the same path.
 
That comment was a poke on the RAAL tweeter.

I love the Raals. I have a pair of their 140 15D's along with the Scan-Speak D3004/6640-00's I've been testing for my prototype active speakers. I give the edge to the Raal's, but the polar response is better on the Scan-speak's. Some prefer the better vertical off axis dispersion of domes. Especially dealers who demo speakers to people standing up.
 
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Can we agree to disagree? I give my nod to the Scanspeak tweeters. And I listen laying down.

Have you compared the flagship Scan-Speak D3004/6640-00's to the RAAL 140-10D's? If so in which speaker's? I find having both tweeters in my possession is a great way to evaluate them.
 
Regarding the tweeters, pay very close attention to the shimmer of a cymbal as it fades off between the two tweeters (in the proper listening position).

Tom
 
Regarding the tweeters, pay very close attention to the shimmer of a cymbal as if fades off between the two (in the proper listening position).

Tom

They are both excellent, however the RAAL is clearly superior if you are seated in the listening position. If off in a corner standing up at a party, I give the nod to the Scan-Speak.
 

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