Taiko Audio Daiza platforms.

Stacore

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Thinking purely hypothetically, a more adequate comparison would be Daiza vs Intro and Tana vs. Basic/Advanced.

Cheers,
 

Audiophile Bill

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Mar 23, 2015
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Thinking purely hypothetically, a more adequate comparison would be Daiza vs Intro and Tana vs. Basic/Advanced.

Cheers,

Hi Jarek,

I don’t speak for Taiko obviously so maybe Emile will chip in. I personally don’t think it is a case of either / or in this instance. The aim of the Daiza is removing vibration inside the component rather than blocking it getting in. As such I would see the Daiza as a worthy product *in combination* with your products - I don’t see them competing as they are doing different things.

Best.
 
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Stacore

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Feb 23, 2017
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Hi Bill,

I wouldn't like to interfere too much with this thread so let me just pass few remarks:

1) Experimenting with mixing different approaches/products is the idea I can only applaud!

2) I do not exactly agree that we are doing different things. Rather we are doing things differently and this is the beauty of a creative power :) Heavy, constrained layer damped slate sandwiches we use are also great in component damping, serving as an inert "vibrations dissipator". Thus the comparison I mentioned would be valid in my view albeit what you propose is even better. In case of either solution, the main question is how to couple tightly to the platform to use its potential fully. If I'm permitted to describe our solution, we designed footers with a steel cup (low impedance coupling to the case) and a slate bottom (low impedance coupling to the platform) with a viscoelstic layer in between coupling the two. I also like a lot Stehno's idea of clamping components to platforms.

3) The comparison I suggested was rather based on the main building principle: Both Intro and Daiza (as far as I know) are rigid platforms, while of course Tana and Basic/Advanced are suspended.

Cheers,
 

Audiophile Bill

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2015
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Hi Bill,

I wouldn't like to interfere too much with this thread so let me just pass few remarks:

1) Experimenting with mixing different approaches/products is the idea I can only applaud!

2) I do not exactly agree that we are doing different things. Rather we are doing things differently and this is the beauty of a creative power :) Heavy, constrained layer damped slate sandwiches we use are also great in component damping, serving as an inert "vibrations dissipator". Thus the comparison I mentioned would be valid in my view albeit what you propose is even better. In case of either solution, the main question is how to couple tightly to the platform to use its potential fully. If I'm permitted to describe our solution, we designed footers with a steel cup (low impedance coupling to the case) and a slate bottom (low impedance coupling to the platform) with a viscoelstic layer in between coupling the two. I also like a lot Stehno's idea of clamping components to platforms.

3) The comparison I suggested was rather based on the main building principle: Both Intro and Daiza (as far as I know) are rigid platforms, while of course Tana and Basic/Advanced are suspended.

Cheers,

Thanks Jarek.

Yes I also like the idea of direct coupling. An idea I had was actually machining a chassis for the servers in Panzer with Daiza as the bottom plate.
 

Taiko Audio

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Hi Jarek,

I don’t speak for Taiko obviously so maybe Emile will chip in. I personally don’t think it is a case of either / or in this instance. The aim of the Daiza is removing vibration inside the component rather than blocking it getting in. As such I would see the Daiza as a worthy product *in combination* with your products - I don’t see them competing as they are doing different things.

Best.

Quite right, although it may appear the same, it works completely different, a different angle approach.

The Tana and Daiza provide different functions, we stack them, a Daiza can sit on top of a Tana and improves its performance. In fact the Daiza was developed for that specific application. However we quickly discovered it had its merits when used without the Tana.

Depending on setup, it can be so effective it does not need "isolation" anymore. That is something you'll just have to try.
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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Just returned from Blue58. Barry has a whole suite of Daizas under his SGM, Aqua Formula XHD w new analog board, Java Triple Shot pre, and his home brew 45 tubed monos.

It's impossible for me to discern exactly what the Daizas are contributing as seperate from what his new dac analog board is contributing, all I can do is comment on the overall effect.

First thing to say is that energy and focus are right up. There's a real uptick in leading edge intensity and dynamics, and other than a couple of examples more down to mastering (as usual, prog and fusion), this hasn't resulted in harshness. It's a much welcome impvt on what I felt was a slightly negative change in his sound to over-silkiness when Barry initially went from his harder hitting T&A Dac8 to the Aqua some months back.

So, music is much more pertinent w the changes. Mids seem a bit more fleshed out as well, but as always I prefer the density in my system, giving away the fact that I will always be first and foremost a vinyl man. However there is greater weight and gravitas to Barry's sound that was definitely not present prior to the full complement of Daizas going in.

My main takeaway is that the Daizas seem to be marshalling the sound better for way less restriction to dynamics, at the same time the energy released not creating any kind of confusing distortion. The vitality of music presentation but in an ordered tidy fashion that means the message is fully communicated.

Measured exhuberance - is that a concept? If it is, this sound has it. And the Daizas feel a big part of this.

Barry will have to chip in to discuss how much of what I'm commenting on is Daizas, Aqua analog board, and both.
 

zacho

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Mar 30, 2018
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I just took delivery of a Plixir Elite BAC 3000 pre-conditioner weighing about 40kg. I intend to get a daiza platform for it but want to first replace the stock bFly footers. Would something like the AmCan Isolators (spiked) work well with the Daiza? I also have a set of MIG 2.0 and Tiglon TMX4. Wondering which would be the best candidate for use with the Daiza.
 

Tango

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I promised a few comments on the full Daiza complement in my system and I’m happy to report that the sound quality uptick has been both revealing and great value for money. In fact I have sold most of my old isolation products to help pay for one of the Daiza and don’t miss a single one of them. (the Daiza underneath my amplifiers are a special size to accommodate their large footprint and almost any size can be made to order.)

The level of transparency has increased and of course dynamics but the most startling effect for me is the ability to play loud with no discernible distortion. I’m talking about those vocal crescendos that often break up or become harsh or big bombastic orchestral scores that used to sound congested when the volume increased. Somehow the Daiza are breaking the feedback loop between speakers and components more effectively than anything else I’ve tried. The Daiza feet under the Aqua also improved the sound by tightening up the bass creating greater propulsion to the music.

Emile has created something special here and I thank him for bringing these platforms to market.

Cheers
Blue58
I just re read this thread. I didn't read most comments here before...only looked at pics of the French system and teased him because I never found noticable improvement with this kind of product at the same time not robbing something away from my system. I am still in the process of finding the best way to use Daiza in my system. But I would say what Blue described above is very much resemble what I am experiencing...especially the bang for the buck part.
 
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Taiko Audio

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I just took delivery of a Plixir Elite BAC 3000 pre-conditioner weighing about 40kg. I intend to get a daiza platform for it but want to first replace the stock bFly footers. Would something like the AmCan Isolators (spiked) work well with the Daiza? I also have a set of MIG 2.0 and Tiglon TMX4. Wondering which would be the best candidate for use with the Daiza.

Hello zacho,

The AmCan isolators look like they would be counterproductive. Solid spikes would work but these look like they have a compliant layer build in. You need something rigidly coupling equipment to platform, so not an “isolator”. Otherwise they would partially interfere with draining mechanical energy from the appliance. Just trying to “isolate” the appliance from the floor is a quite limited approach. We also, in fact even more so, want to drain mechanical energy generated inside the equipment and applied energy from soundwaves hitting it.
We have some solid performing interface options available to help out with that if needed.
 

tima

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Mar 3, 2014
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The aim of the Daiza is removing vibration inside the component rather than blocking it getting in.

That is fascinating - the part about removing vibration [from] inside the component.

Speculation on my part:
I'm guessing that placing a piece of panzerholz board directly in contact with the component is more effective than siting the component's feet on the board? Is that the case? The acoustic impedance of wood is pretty low so the more wood in contact with the component's case (particularly an aluminum case) would yield greater energy transference from the case to the wood? Where does the energy in the wood go - or get turned into some other form of energy?
 

Taiko Audio

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That is fascinating - the part about removing vibration [from] inside the component.

Speculation on my part:
I'm guessing that placing a piece of panzerholz board directly in contact with the component is more effective than siting the component's feet on the board? Is that the case? The acoustic impedance of wood is pretty low so the more wood in contact with the component's case (particularly an aluminum case) would yield greater energy transference from the case to the wood? Where does the energy in the wood go - or get turned into some other form of energy?

Spot on, using panzerholz as an interface works very well. It is absorbed by internal damping. It is about 4 times as effective as a block of rubber of the same size, yet it’s not compliant, does not act as a spring, so no “muddy” sound from the associated resonance peak. Panzerholz was designed to stop bullets, it is very efficient at dissipating “impact energy”.

Edit: a larger contact surface area with the equipment has a downside, as it will literally bounce up and down creating oscillations between the surfaces. In the end it’s still a balancing act.
 
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tima

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Spot on, using panzerholz as an interface works very well. It is absorbed by internal damping. It is about 4 times as effective as a block of rubber of the same size, yet it’s not compliant, does not act as a spring, so no “muddy” sound from the associated resonance peak. Panzerholz was designed to stop bullets, it is very efficient at dissipating “impact energy”.

Edit: a larger contact surface area with the equipment has a downside, as it will literally bounce up and down creating oscillations between the surfaces. In the end it’s still a balancing act.

A bullet would be an, er, one shot event, its energy moving into and across the panzerholz. Over the course of playing music the energy in the component, generated by the component or induced from the outside is continual, probably varying in frequency based on the makeup of the component and external forces.

I'm guessing the energy transference between the component and the panzerholz board continues as long as there is an energy / frequency differential. (If the component's energy frequency matches that of the panzerholz or vice versa then it amplifies? - not a good thing.)

But I'm still unclear on the question of what becomes of the energy build-up in the panzerholz. I'm guessing that dissapation is spreading, absorbing, but seemingly unless that energy goes somewhere else or converts to a different form of energy, there is a limit to the panzerholz's "capacity" ? I realize its not a closed system. Does the panzerholz warm up? Maybe my grasp on this is naive or too simplistic.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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I just took delivery of a Plixir Elite BAC 3000 pre-conditioner weighing about 40kg. I intend to get a daiza platform for it but want to first replace the stock bFly footers. Would something like the AmCan Isolators (spiked) work well with the Daiza? I also have a set of MIG 2.0 and Tiglon TMX4. Wondering which would be the best candidate for use with the Daiza.

Emile sent me some 'raw' Daiza footers to try. 'raw' means without the copper interface attached meant for the Daiza cutouts underneath. so small; less than one inch panzerholtz rounds open on one end, and filled with plastic foam. i had some unused Daiza footers from where my Tana LPS units are using spikes on carpets, so i removed some of those copper rounds there too so i had enough.

i used these in place of the Stay HiFi Trina dual ball footers i had been using with the MSB power bases and the Extreme server to interface with the Daiza's. i also used them on the Tana TS-150 active shelves where i had used the BDR carbon fiber cones between the MSB dac and the darTZeel pre and the Daiza's sitting on top of the TS-150.

so now all my source electronics have a Daiza <-> Daiza footer interface only......top.......and bottom + 2 Tana TS-150 active shelves. the Daiza's are all only using panzerholtz to interface with my solid Adona granite shelves.

DF-1.jpg

the first 2 hours was ultra detailed but a bit cold and harsh. went upstairs to watch some football, then came back and it was more natural sounding. the next morning better. by that night it was better than prior, and now 2 days later a nice step better than before. just overall more textured and cohesive, better flow. less processed and less a sense of reproduced music. not a tiny thing, not huge, but real and appreciated. like the A/C grid power got better and it's more relaxed and involving. my system already has exceptional sound staging and image separation. might that have improved? can't say....maybe.

my guess is that having a solid rack, then the three layers of panzerholtz interfaces seems to 'quiet' the gear synergistically. also.....Emile thought, and i tend to agree, that having the whole signal path on the same interface yields something positive. obviously the dac and pre have the TS-150 active so that's not the same right now.

the Daiza footer pictured below is used with the open end down. the closed end against the gear bottom.
DF-2.jpg
 
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Tango

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Emile sent me some 'raw' Daiza footers to try. 'raw' means without the copper interface attached meant for the Daiza cutouts underneath. so small; less than one inch panzerholtz rounds open on one end, and filled with plastic foam. i had some unused Daiza footers from where my Tana LPS units are using spikes on carpets, so i removed some of those copper rounds there too so i had enough.

i used these in place of the Stay HiFi Trina dual ball footers i had been using with the MSB power bases and the Extreme server to interface with the Daiza's. i also used them on the Tana TS-150 active shelves where i had used the BDR carbon fiber cones between the MSB dac and the darTZeel pre and the Daiza's sitting on top of the TS-150.

so now all my source electronics have a Daiza <-> Daiza footer interface only......top.......and bottom + 2 Tana TS-150 active shelves. the Daiza's are all only using panzerholtz to interface with my solid Adona granite shelves.

View attachment 58492

the first 2 hours was ultra detailed but a bit cold and harsh. went upstairs to watch some football, then came back and it was more natural sounding. the next morning better. by that night it was better than prior, and now 2 days later a nice step better than before. just overall more textured and cohesive, better flow. less processed and less a sense of reproduced music. not a tiny thing, not huge, but real and appreciated. like the A/C grid power got better and it's more relaxed and involving. my system already has exceptional sound staging and image separation. might that have improved? can't say....maybe.

my guess is that having a solid rack, then the three layers of panzerholtz interfaces seems to 'quiet' the gear synergistically. also.....Emile thought, and i tend to agree, that having the whole signal path on the same interface yields something positive. obviously the dac and pre have the TS-150 active so that's not the same right now.

the Daiza footer pictured below is used with the open end down. the closed end against the gear bottom.
View attachment 58493
How is it to you with vs without foam filling the footers Mike.
 

shaned

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2019
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If my gear has enough space between their stock Footers could it be possible to use the smallest Daiza 345mm 325mm underneath so the gear sits on top with the stock feet just hanging ?
 

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