Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[dminches]

just to be extra careful, if you have never run roon, is there any concern for xdms-only users with all this roon update mishegas?

If you don't run Roon it can't update so you have no concern.

 

[John T]

Are you saying Roon is now sounding the way it was before you did the upgrade?

David I would now have to give the edge to XDMS. I was 99.9% listening to Roon before the update situation. Before the update blindly, I don't think I could distinguish between the 2. XDMS now seems to be more open/airy compared to Roon. I think I could distinguish between them now. Don't misunderstand me, Roon does not sound bad, but I think now XDMS is less gray, more tonal richness, a lot more airiness compared to current Roon. What I was experiencing during the update situation along with both apps open at the same time was an anomaly. I thought at first it was build 1353 that sounded so bad but it was a combination of things...If I could magically roll back to 1311, my observations may be different...

 

[dminches]

David I would now have to give the edge to XDMS. I was 99.9% listening to Roon before the update situation. Before the update blindly, I don't think I could distinguish between the 2. XDMS now seems to be more open/airy compared to Roon. I think I could distinguish between them now. Don't misunderstand me, Roon does not sound bad, but I think now XDMS is less gray, more tonal richness, a lot more airiness compared to current Roon. What I was experiencing during the update situation along with both apps open at the same time was an anomaly. I thought at first it was build 1353 that sounded so bad but it was a combination of things...If I could magically roll back to 1311, my observations may be different...

Thanks John. It sounds like Roon took a step back since XDMS shouldn't have changed.

Rolling back to 1311 isn't complicated but I will leave that up to tech support for you.

 

[steve williams]

Has anyone tried to change the filters in the DCD to tune Roon to taste?

 

[Kris]

Correct, no modem, fiber plugs directly into the DMP.

The varying rj45 lengths is because of me sometimes changing the location of the router for experimental purposes. The in wall rj45 cable length is 7 meters, and I use 2, 7 or 15 meter rj45 (extension) cables to the router depending on its physical location.

Thank you .
two more questions related to that .

What rj45 cables you use ( brand , connectors , cat ?)

if you go rj45 from U DMP are you connecting this cable to the DMP inbulid switch ( 4 ports)
OR you get out from a swich conncted to DMP router ?
OR last option is to exit from SFP with Sfp to RJ45 adapter?

 

[John T]

Has anyone tried to change the filters in the DCD to tune Roon to taste?

I don't have the DCD but that would be an interesting experiment. You have XDMS as your reference...

 

[SwissTom]

@Taiko Audio


The latest forum entries leave me speechless

- A new BPS for the current Extreme Server

- A new Extreme BPS

- A modular PCI card that can accommodate a whole host of daughterboards.

- A new data transmission protocol !

- A playback, streaming, library manager software built from scratch, aiming for sound quality

- And God knows what else.

Add to all that : support, sales, order tracking, etc.

And, icing on the cake, the joys of Roon Labs, which requires some work to adapt when updates go wild.

Honestly, I don't know how you do it, especially considering the team appears to be relatively small.

Ik heb maar één ding te zeggen: goed gedaan!

 

[steve williams]

I don't have the DCD but that would be an interesting experiment. You have XDMS as your reference...

I do

 

[Kingsrule]

Guys, look at post 20,424 regarding Roon.
Taiko knows there is a SQ issue regarding the latest Roon update and is working on a fix.
All this conjecture regarding the cause isn't helping and is pointless.
Lets hope we hear from Emile soon on the fix.......

 

[Christiaan Punter]

If you don't run Roon it can't update so you have no concern.

Guys, look at post 20,424 regarding Roon.
Taiko knows there is a SQ issue regarding the latest Roon update and is working on a fix.
All this conjecture regarding the cause isn't helping and is pointless.
Lets hope we hear from Emile soon on the fix.......

We have identified the root cause of the disappearing USB/ASIO output, the flashing in the audio settings pane, and the inability to switch between Roon/XDMS and know how to address this on affected systems. It's a pesky issue but not a very complex one to fix.

The Roon update process has indeed changed, and there is no longer a RoonServer-only install file, but contrary to our initial assumption, this turns out not to be the root cause, and the extra installed Roon parts are not an issue.

If you experience this issue, please get in touch with support@taikoaudio.com to receive a guide that describes the issue and has detailed steps on how to fix it, or ask for Remote Support, and we will connect and fix it for you.

We are also working on a permanent fix to prevent this from happening again.

Unfortunately, Roon SQ is always shifting, which is a big reason why we started developing XDMS. As always, Roon SQ will no doubt pick up again after another update or the one thereafter. If not, Emile may find new ways of optimizing the SQ. We recommend staying up to date, and please trust that we will do what we can to mitigate any arising issues. Rolling back to an older version is not recommended, as that will likely lead to other issues in the Roon ecosystem.

 

[Christiaan Punter]

I have another question here for users of the Taiko Router and switch and the use of footers.

Im curious as to which has the better sonic improvement.....footers under the switch or footers under the Taiko router

In my tests, the sonic effect of using Footers under the Router and Switch is comparable. If you can swing it, address them both using your preferred footers. And the same goes for placement, as both are equally sensitive to what they are positioned on.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Guys, look at post 20,424 regarding Roon.
Taiko knows there is a SQ issue regarding the latest Roon update and is working on a fix.
All this conjecture regarding the cause isn't helping and is pointless.
Lets hope we hear from Emile soon on the fix.......

As an update to this:

It actually appears to me that build 1353 is significantly better then 1311, if it weren’t for the excessive amount of trace and debug logging entries.

The core components of 1353 use 60-70% less resources then 1311.

To put theory to practice I’ve hacked the OS drive to run of a battery power supply (please don’t attempt to do this yourself, you will likely end up blowing something up). This negates the negative influence of continuous disk activity by the excessive logging.

Now indeed 1353 does “sound” better then 1311.

I assume this additional debug logging and tracing has been activated by the Roon developers to be able to diagnose issues accompanying this apparently significant overhaul of the roon core components. This has been done before on mayor releases and was removed again on later builds.

Recapping, to me this appears to be a temporary degradation of SQ followed by a an increase in future builds.

 

[John T]

As an update to this:

It actually appears to me that build 1353 is significantly better then 1311, if it weren’t for the excessive amount of trace and debug logging entries.

The core components of 1353 use 60-70% less resources then 1311.

To put theory to practice I’ve hacked the OS drive to run of a battery power supply (please don’t attempt to do this yourself, you will likely end up blowing something up). This negates the negative influence of continuous disk activity by the excessive logging.

Now indeed 1353 does “sound” better then 1311.

I assume this additional debug logging and tracing has been activated by the Roon developers to be able to diagnose issues accompanying this apparently significant overhaul of the roon core components. This has been done before on mayor releases and was removed again on later builds.

Recapping, to me this appears to be a temporary degradation of SQ followed by a an increase in future builds.

I hope you are right with this Emile...

 

[John T]

We have identified the root cause of the disappearing USB/ASIO output and audio settings pane and know how to address it on affected systems. It's a pesky issue but not a very complex one to fix.

The Roon update process has indeed changed, and there is no longer a RoonServer-only install file, but contrary to our initial assumption, this turns out not to be the root cause, and the extra installed Roon parts are not an issue.

If you experience this issue, please get in touch with support@taikoaudio.com to receive a guide that describes the issue and has detailed steps on how to fix it, or ask for Remote Support, and we will connect and fix it for you.

We are also working on a permanent fix to prevent this from happening again.

As for Roon SQ, well, that's unfortunately always shifting, and this is a big reason why we started developing XDMS. As always, Roon SQ will no doubt pick up again after another update or the one thereafter. Rolling back is not recommended, as that will likely lead to other issues in the Roon ecosystem.

Christiaan are you "close" on a permanent fix? Will this occur again when prompted to do a upgrade? We know other upgrades are inevitable...

 

[SwissTom]

To put theory to practice I’ve hacked the OS drive to run of a battery power supply (please don’t attempt to do this yourself, you will likely end up blowing something up). This negates the negative influence of continuous disk activity by the excessive logging.

That's a brilliant workaround!

I'm suppose that the future Extreme BPS, which will run fully on battery power, won't suffer from that.. how can call it? unpredictable varying disk accesses.

Cheers,
Thomas

 

[Christiaan Punter]

God our lord. Well and maybe Ed too.

As always, development is ongoing 24/7 by a dedicated team. But there is no predefined timetable for the XDMS beta release.

 

[Taiko Audio]

That's a brilliant workaround!

I'm suppose that the future Extreme BPS, which will run fully on battery power, won't suffer from that.. how can call it? unpredictable varying disk accesses.

Cheers,
Thomas

Indeed, but we took it a bit further, details of which we will announce as soon as circumstances permit

 

[Christiaan Punter]

Christiaan are you "close" on a permanent fix? Will this occur again when prompted to do a upgrade? We know other upgrades are inevitable...

I have no further info on this ATM, but we regard it as a high priority.

Further Roon updates could again cause issues, but not necessarily. It depends on a few circumstances.

I created a document (attached below) describing the issue along with steps to fix it after the fact, as well as a method to follow to prevent this from happening again during a next update. This is a circumvention and not a full solution, but we are working on that.

The steps involved are certainly "doable" for someone familiar with fairly common Windows processes such as Task Manager. But if the descriptions do not make sense, please contact us to carry out the procedure for you.

 

[John T]

I have no further info on this ATM, but we regard it as a high priority.

Further Roon updates could again cause issues, but not necessarily. It depends on a few circumstances.

I created a document (attached below) describing the issue along with steps to fix it after the fact, as well as a method to follow to prevent this from happening again during a next update. This is a circumvention and not a full solution, but we are working on that.

The steps involved are certainly "doable" for someone familiar with fairly common Windows processes such as Task Manager. But if the descriptions do not make sense, please contact us to carry out the procedure for you.

Another option especially if Emile's prediction comes to fruition in regards to 1353 or subsequent builds becoming more refined. DELETE XDMS....

 

[Armsan]

Another option especially if Emile's prediction comes to fruition in regards to 1353 or subsequent builds becoming more refined. DELETE XDMS....

Or, delete/uninstall Roon from the server, like I did years ago. Glad we all can choose how our Extreme sounds best.