Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème
- Thread starter CKKeung
- Start date
I keep asking Emile if there was a way to use a tube with that analogue card
Well indeed if you have a strong preference for some things only tubes do, like an infusion of air, a different rendering of tonal textures, the way they can put a spotlight on foreground instruments, then there’s no substitute. This applies to any gain / amplification stage, DAC output stage, pre amplifier, power amplifier.
Quite obviously this is not everyone’s preference, as this tends to come at a cost, like a less tight, less controlled, less powerful lower register, increased overall noise levels, no inky black backgrounds, and although those tube spotlighted foreground images can appear to be very transparent, overall transparency levels are lower.
Basically this is a tube versus solid state preference thing, and therefor highly personal.
My personal preference favours the tube type of presentation which is why I rate the Poseidon 20% higher then direct analogue out. But those favouring solid state characteristics may not agree with my assessment at all, if you prefer ultimate precision, maximum detail extraction, ultimate clarity, from all the way on top down to the lowest sub bass levels, with impressive speed from a 100MHz+ bandwidth battery powered output stage, then the direct analogue output option might very well be all you want.
The bottom line here is that if you’re into tubes, native XDMI to a Lampizator DAC will not disappoint.
As personal preference is really a big part of what one may prefer, and XDMI analogue out contains an analogue amplification stage, it’s beyond “just” better digital technology. Hence I am indeed very eager to learn how people perceive the sound of XDMI, in whatever way it’s utilised.
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Your honesty/transparency is well noted and appreciated!
Also with the Lampi Poseidon that is supposed to be an excellent preamp as well as an excellent DAC?
Purely speculation but I suspect direct would be a presentation sounding as if on audio steroids...
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I was being facetious about tubes as my entire system has been all tubes for well over 25 years and I wouldn't have it any other way and yes my preamp is all tubes as are my amps etc.I was being a smart ass trying to envision that analogue card with a tube in the center as that is the only place in my system where a tube is absent
But for me this is my take away from all these recent posts
But for me this is my take away from all these recent posts
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
people have been asking me about the second Horizon. Talking to Lukasz I decided that the quickest way to get native DSD and to have it functional for when the Olympus and I/O arrive. I could have sent it back for retrofitting but that would mean my digital side would be down for 3-4 weeks and TBH I couldn't take that chance but there were two factors that affected my decision
1. I wanted a Horizon with USB and a Horizon with Native XDMI to compare against one another
2. I wanted a Horizon that plays native XDMI as that is my new path and certainly Emile's comments have become my new mantra..."The bottom line here is that if you’re into tubes, native XDMI to a Lampizator DAC will not disappoint."
But there is also a 3rd reason and a very personal one for me ......I find that these past few years being a member of the alpha test group and being able to watch this new TAS, then XDMS and now NSM develop around me was an eye opener. WBF is so fortunate to have members who are so computer savvy that I felt I learned something new almost daily. Sure the system is still buggy but I can live with that as the SQ continues to get better and better. It seems with every new update there was something new to hear and/or an improvement in the control app. This has given me a huge appreciation foray the hard work Ed, Christiaan, Pavel do on a daily basis to make the Taiko listening experience something very special to my ears. So a 3rd reason was that being without a DAC would leave me out of all the fun in the alpha group. things are changing so fast there that we are now on the 15th version of the new control app ad simply put, being a part of this has been a humbling experience watching so many people give their wish lists and have this happen in real time. The number of people and man hours involved in the coding of this project is ginormous. My hat is always tipped to Ed and his team who are always there to help. I feel we are all very lucky to be a part of this incessant desire to produce a system where all that matters is the pursuit if the best sound quality. I have been a part of that since the very first version of TAS unit present and it has been a truly amazing experience for me, who 4 years ago was 95% analogue in my system and digital was just an after thought. Hence my desire not to part with my DAC, hence the second one is in production and I look forward to finally bringing my proposed open house for a weekend where members can come and hear it all ( except no aes/ebu)
Welcome back from a well deserved break Emile. Finding your morning posts once again always go well with my morning coffee
1. I wanted a Horizon with USB and a Horizon with Native XDMI to compare against one another
2. I wanted a Horizon that plays native XDMI as that is my new path and certainly Emile's comments have become my new mantra..."The bottom line here is that if you’re into tubes, native XDMI to a Lampizator DAC will not disappoint."
But there is also a 3rd reason and a very personal one for me ......I find that these past few years being a member of the alpha test group and being able to watch this new TAS, then XDMS and now NSM develop around me was an eye opener. WBF is so fortunate to have members who are so computer savvy that I felt I learned something new almost daily. Sure the system is still buggy but I can live with that as the SQ continues to get better and better. It seems with every new update there was something new to hear and/or an improvement in the control app. This has given me a huge appreciation foray the hard work Ed, Christiaan, Pavel do on a daily basis to make the Taiko listening experience something very special to my ears. So a 3rd reason was that being without a DAC would leave me out of all the fun in the alpha group. things are changing so fast there that we are now on the 15th version of the new control app ad simply put, being a part of this has been a humbling experience watching so many people give their wish lists and have this happen in real time. The number of people and man hours involved in the coding of this project is ginormous. My hat is always tipped to Ed and his team who are always there to help. I feel we are all very lucky to be a part of this incessant desire to produce a system where all that matters is the pursuit if the best sound quality. I have been a part of that since the very first version of TAS unit present and it has been a truly amazing experience for me, who 4 years ago was 95% analogue in my system and digital was just an after thought. Hence my desire not to part with my DAC, hence the second one is in production and I look forward to finally bringing my proposed open house for a weekend where members can come and hear it all ( except no aes/ebu)
Welcome back from a well deserved break Emile. Finding your morning posts once again always go well with my morning coffee
Fantastic.
So it looks if you add a top preamp to the analog XDMI output , With above 50K sticker price this should give it a very big improvement .
Or perhaps the Conrad Johnson ART-88 is the best tube preamp that Emile could find. I wonder what would be rank in terms of best tube (or hibrid) preamp among: VAC Statement ($70K), Lamm L1.1 sig ($55.3K), Riviera Labs APL10 SE ($47K), Conrad Johnson ART-88 ($28K), Ypsilon PST100 mk2 SE, VTL 7.5, Audio Research, CAT, etc
Of course you were joking. The point, from my perspective is whether the analog out will be bettered by a native xdmi dac or not.You missed my point.
My personal experience is that the preamp has a profound influence on overall sound. If forced to make a choice for $$ reasons, I would part with my dac before my pre. It will be fascinating to see how this shakes out.
I couldn't agree more in regard to the preamp/line stage having a profound influence...
Fantastic list of top performers.
We would need a SS preamp being added to this list for a full spectrum :
Soulution 725
Soulution 727 (not sure if anyone knows it)
Boulder 3010
Boulder 2110
CH precision L10
DarTzeel
Gryphon Commander
...
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
also totally agree. I always tell friends when they ask about tubes and where they should start, the preamp is my number one recommendation and since my entire system is tubes I really look forward to hearing the XDMI analog DAC played through my tube preamp
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I just had a worrisome thought and thus a question to Emile and those in the know...In order to run the analog card to the preamp am I correct in assuming that the card only has AES/EBU output which, if correct, requires an XLR cable from the card to the preamp.......if that is the case my great idea just collapsed as Lamm does not use XLR in to the preamp...only SE. The preamp does use XLR out from the preamp to the amp but it is pseudo balanced (one pin is shorted making it effectively a SE cable)
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I just spoke to Emile who reassured me all is well as the card is RCA analog out
Exactly.I just spoke to Emile who reassured me all is well as the card is RCA analog out
We are suffering as it has no Balanced audio XLRs.
You are just perfect using RCA direct from analog outputs.
But in Emile we trust to get balanced XDMI audio card one day
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steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Indeed. That is certainly the way I am leaning, whether or not tubes are involved. Though I recently have started getting back into tube gear after a long absence.
I'm not sure of how much of a gap can be bridged by using a high-quality preamp between DAC and power amp but I can say that my recent comparison of using a D'Agostino Momentum HD preamp vs what I'm listening to temporarily -- my dCS Vivaldi APEX directly into my power amp -- has reinforced my early experiments when the Vivaldi was new, that is, although Vivaldi direct sounds very transparent and has wonderful clarity and low-level, natural detail, when I had the D'Agostino preamp in the system the sound was all of that plus much more weighty and vivid and more 3D as well. So the virtues of a preamp, at least in my system, are pretty clear.
Steve Z
