In my view the pressing or visceral LP is similar to the digital file you get from Qobuz or Tidal.
The same pressing sounds different with different turntables and so does the file from Qobuz with different servers.
Matt
Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème
- Thread starter CKKeung
- Start date
In my view the pressing or visceral LP is similar to the digital file you get from Qobuz or Tidal.
The same pressing sounds different with different turntables and so does the file from Qobuz with different servers.
Matt
Mike, I don’t see it that way since digital data is analogous to analog data. That is, digital masterings can differ the same way LP or tape masterings can. Thus, to compare the server, which processes the data, to the LP which is the data, doesn’t seem right to me.
None of this really matters but I like the analogy of the server to the turntable since both perform the function of the forming the foundation of moving information.
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
In the great scheme of things with the Extreme and its blistering fast ability to move from one format to another I have found that in may system "all formats" sound so good that it has come to be totally irrelevant to me which is being played as they all sound so good to my ears.
Mike, I find your analogy that: Extreme = best tt PLUS best pressing, and in effect because Tidal is providing the best digital files for all servers that utilise it, Extreme is equivalent to the best tt w the best vinyl collection.
I think my early audio experience is telling. Back in the 80s and 90s I regularly went to demos at Grahams in N.London, the premier UK dealership for Linn and Naim who had the stranglehold on British audio.
There was the religious run thru the range of Linn tts, from sub £500 Basik to £3k LP12 Sondek (remember these are prices from 25+ years ago). And of course, arms and carts.
And it was ably demonstrated that the strong message from the dealer to go priciest LP12 Sondek tt, and more affordable arm and cart, made sense within a restricted budget, and go to TOTL arm and cart at later date when funds permitted.
I wouldnt be at all suprised that if Linn were promoting servers today, an Extreme in their line would be advertised as THE key component in the source, and the message would be hold back on the dac if you have to. And I suspect the USB cbl would be considered part of the server.
So Extreme plus best USB > best dac.
The Q then is, just how good are dacs in the $5-10k bracket.
Ked, you're obviously late to the discussion. We're talking analogies to vinyl rigs. In summary, up until Extreme it was commonly understood to go for the best dac, and a reasonably inexpensive server, maybe at most a 50/50 split re budget. Hell, there are users of a laptop/Mac w Select 2.
The idea now is that Extreme is so powerful in manipulating data to the dac, that it more and more (in the digital world) resembles the very best tts, and may be the only server that dictates putting as many resources twds it and USB, and "compromise" more on the DAC.
Noone is literally calling the Extreme the equivalent of an AF0 w The General's lp collection. But for digital guys, Extreme plus Tidal is the nearest situation to The General.
The idea now is that Extreme is so powerful in manipulating data to the dac, that it more and more (in the digital world) resembles the very best tts, and may be the only server that dictates putting as many resources twds it and USB, and "compromise" more on the DAC.
Noone is literally calling the Extreme the equivalent of an AF0 w The General's lp collection. But for digital guys, Extreme plus Tidal is the nearest situation to The General.
not had that price range dac in my system. but my first GG, and my original Aqua Formula dac were both in that $13k--$17k range, so the next step up. but many tout a number of dacs in that price range as giant killers. i personally cannot comment.
what i would say is that some dacs prefer 'bit perfect' and other dacs 'up-sample'. it's possible this might have something to do with which dacs get the biggest boost from which server. not saying that most servers can't be good with both approaches, but i'd guess there are lesser and greater synergies involved.
and it might be that 'price range' could be related to 'bit perfect' or not. don't know, but that tech might just cost more at this time. or just not filtered down far enough. all just guessing on my part.
maybe Emile could comment as all i'm doing is connecting the dots from observations.
so which modestly priced dacs will be the best one's on the price value curve for the Extreme? don't really know. maybe the entry level MSB as i assume it's a 'bit-perfect' dac. not sure it's everyone's idea of modestly price though.
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Hi Marc
At the minute I am in the process of upgrading my streaming but I’m also conscious of cost and seeing what is or isn’t affordable and practical, I’ve moved from all Tellurium Q Silver Diamond Cables to a full loom of Sablon cables XLR, RCA’s, Speakers And Ethernet, powercords to come next year hopefully. My preamp has a Dac but it only has 3 Spdif inputs and doesn’t have either Roon, Qobuz or Tidal implementedso instead of buying a streamer /server and using the Spdif which some don’t even have I decided on getting the newly upgraded Aqua Acoustics XHD Dac for a great price. This will then let me start saving up to buy the cheaper Extreme version later in 2020 and that will give me the option to see what sounds best the Extreme into my preamp via Spdif, Extreme into the XHD via either Ethernet or usb then into my preamp via the RCA’s. I will still keep my TT and albums but since I use Qobuz too 99% of those albums I have on vinyl I also ow stream as well only for
Hi Mark
I’ve seen several people including Mark Sablon Audio using the AQua Acoustics XHD Dac I’m in the process of getting this next month and I was able to get a great deal on a brand new one with the latest upgrade and I saved roughly a third of the retail price which is £11,250 so there are great deals out there for DACs which aren’t out of reach.
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
according to Vince Galbo NSM of MSB when using a Select he told me you don't have to go overboard with an expensive server and said that done right a laptop with JRiver is all you need for great sound.
So you can build the system around the DAC or you can build the system around the server. Take your pick
Vince sells dacs, not servers. OTOH he has great ears and when he gets exposed to a game changing server like the Extreme i expect his viewpoint will change.
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
he does sell DAC's but has not heard the Extreme and I agree with you but having said that he does have great ears and states emphatically there is no need to go overboard in buying a server when using the Select
Shane, I'm fully aware of how exemplary the Formula XHD is, having heard it several times now at Blue58's on his SGM. I have a couple of reservations about it, but it ticks most of the main boxes. And since Emile informs me what we jokingly called Kid Extreme (the new "entry" level Taiko server upgradeable to full Extreme) leaves SGM in its wake, £30k covers that entry Extreme/Sablon USB/Aqua XHD combo. I've spent close to that on my multiple upgraded tt front end, so have no qualms on that kind of outlay (other than finding it Lol).
My issue would be having to absolutely spend as much or more on the Dac as the Extreme, as has been the ratio up to now on servers and dacs. If that formula was rigid, then £10k would likely be my spend on Innuos Zenith and slightly pricier dac, eg new Holo May, or £25k on Innuos Statement plus Formula XHD.
My issue would be having to absolutely spend as much or more on the Dac as the Extreme, as has been the ratio up to now on servers and dacs. If that formula was rigid, then £10k would likely be my spend on Innuos Zenith and slightly pricier dac, eg new Holo May, or £25k on Innuos Statement plus Formula XHD.
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Marc, this isn’t true. Go check out the discussions at audiostylestyle.com. People have been putting a lot of money towards servers long before the Extreme. Companies like Aurender have had every expensive servers on the market for a number of years. Optimizing the data stream prior to feeding the DAC has been a goal for many for years.
Yes it seems so. Despite overwhelming praise for this and that server (in this case the extreme) noone seem willing or able to directly answer the question how it compares to a cd player.
Maybe because they havent made the comparison or maybe because they dont care.
Maybe life is easier if you stick to remasters, dddd recordings and dab radio.
A person told me that I would have an easier time with digital if i didnt listen so much to records. Maybe it also helps to stay away from live music.
Jesper
Hey Matt,
The answer I believe is that the 3.1 Gen2 is the best sounding USB port. I'm answering so Emile doesn't miss this and can answer with additional information.
Generally you pay for the same performance less with a CD player. But with the Extreme, I do not know.
Matt
