Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[steve williams]

I don't get it.....

This is the Extreme........

Why do you guys feel the need to tinker with something that to my ears sounds so damn good right out of the box. Emile designs around neutrality and you guys futz with it and create a colored system different than neutral.

I see zero need to change fuses. I am betting Emile messed with fuses in his R&D and settled on a normal fuse. I just don't get how you guys feel your sound is neutral. What I read from your descriptors is that your are adding color. If that is what floats your boat, go for it. IMHO it is totally unnecessary.

 

[justubes]

I am also using the new Orange fuse in Extreme. However I changed the fuse soon after I received the Extreme and never really compare with the stock fuse.
Good to know the significant improvement you are getting. Enjoy!

How many ampere does the Extreme take for the fuse?

 

[howiebrou]

I don't get it.....

This is the Extreme........

Why do you guys feel the need to tinker with something that to my ears sounds so damn good right out of the box. Emile designs around neutrality and you guys futz with it and create a colored system different than neutral.

I see zero need to change fuses. I am betting Emile messed with fuses in his R&D and settled on a normal fuse. I just don't get how you guys feel your sound is neutral. What I read from your descriptors is that your are adding color. If that is what floats your boat, go for it. IMHO it is totally unnecessary.

The extreme is no different from any other piece of gear. Whether it is a good support, decent power supply and cord or Lan cable, tinkering is inate in our nature to find the sound that best fits into our systems.

 

[steve williams]

The extreme is no different from any other piece of gear. Whether it is a good support, decent power supply and cord or Lan cable, tinkering is inate in our nature to find the sound that best fits into our systems.

So what is it about neutral that you don’t like

 

[dminches]

I don't get it.....

This is the Extreme........

Why do you guys feel the need to tinker with something that to my ears sounds so damn good right out of the box. Emile designs around neutrality and you guys futz with it and create a colored system different than neutral.

I see zero need to change fuses. I am betting Emile messed with fuses in his R&D and settled on a normal fuse. I just don't get how you guys feel your sound is neutral. What I read from your descriptors is that your are adding color. If that is what floats your boat, go for it. IMHO it is totally unnecessary.

Steve, do you use the stock power cords that come with your Lamm components and maybe even the Extreme? While I personally have never changed a fuse in anything I have purchased, I don't see how it is any different than changing anything else that comes with something you buy.

 

[howiebrou]

So what is it about neutral that you don’t like

I don't think there is such a thing as neutral.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Switzerland.

 

[steve williams]

I don't think there is such a thing as neutral.

Emile IIRC designs around neutral aka uncolored

Steve, do you use the stock power cords that come with your Lamm components and maybe even the Extreme? While I personally have never changed a fuse in anything I have purchased, I don't see how it is any different than changing anything else that comes with something you buy.

I can't disagree.I use $5.50 Ching Cheng cables on my Lamm gear. Totally neutral

 

[steve williams]

Can I reverse my question and ask it this way........why use something if it creates a sound which is not natural, such as an exaggeration of the bass

 

[steve williams]

I am all for adding something as long as the overall effect sounds natural and uncolored. What I read wrt fuses is that they add color

 

[steve williams]

I don't think there is such a thing as neutral.

Really

 

[Blackmorec]

So what is it about neutral that you don’t like

With respect Steve, if the Extreme is both neutral AND revealing absolutely all there is to reveal, then you don’t need to improve it. You’re There. But, if there’s still more within the system and on those recordings, then it can be improved without it sounding any less neutral and that’s probably what this is about....digging out yet more information and detail without shifting anything to make the system less neutral. More information doesn’t necessarily mean a loss of neutrality. It really depends on how that extra information is obtained. It it’s say silver cables, which will slightly affect tonality then there is an impact on neutrality, with the detail being somewhat obtained through ‘emphasis’, as you‘re shifting slightly the balance of the system, but if the information is obtained through say further noise reduction, less jitter, less phase noise then you’ll get detail and added information with no impact on neutrality. So what’s the fuse doing? Altering the tonality or reducing internally generated and conducted noise? All it takes for a fuse to have a positive effect is for it to have an effect on a single SQ-critical attribute....whether that’s via noise, current, wave form, stability or whatever. To me, changing an Extreme’s fuse is on about the same level as putting the unit of a really good base....all part of good set-up, along with optimum mains power delivery etc.

 

[Blackmorec]

I don't think there is such a thing as neutral.

How does neutral sound? Its a particular perceived distortion in the playback AND its exact opposite.

I know that sounds odd but essentially what its saying it that whenever one encounters what one thinks is a deviation from neutral....a neutral system will eventually play exactly the opposite, demonstrating that its not a system but rather a recording attribute. Essentially neutral is never being able to identify anything that’s present with every recording other than positive attributes like fast, rhythmic, musical, natural etc., enveloping etc.
You’ll always hear faults in replay....we’re playing recordings which aren’t perfect. A neutral system should typically not demonstrate weaknesses that show up and have an affect on every recording. There’s certainly no such thing as perfectly neutral as every system has its own unique identity.

 

[sbo6]

I am all for adding something as long as the overall effect sounds natural and uncolored. What I read wrt fuses is that they add color

Steve,

From what I've read and what I have experienced I think it depends on the fuse. I have never experience any tonal shift or coloration from the SR fuses I installed but I know some folks say that for example the fuses with bees wax, add a bit of warmth.

 

[Taiko Audio]

The fuse we use has been selected in an early stage of the design for low distortion and reliability. It’s not an “audiophile” fuse but an industrial heavy duty type. It will survive numerous power on cycles and not degrade. In audiophile terms it excels in dynamic expression and images large. The Extreme has been voiced around this fuse in what we consider to be neutral. Changing it obviously does have an impact on voicing.

 

[microstrip]

I don't think there is such a thing as neutral.

Objectively neutral implies specifying what type of measurements are being considered - for example THD, IM, frequency response or noise.

Subjectively neutral just means that pleases our particular main preference.

 

[sbo6]

I don't get it.....

This is the Extreme........

Why do you guys feel the need to tinker with something that to my ears sounds so damn good right out of the box. Emile designs around neutrality and you guys futz with it and create a colored system different than neutral.

I see zero need to change fuses. I am betting Emile messed with fuses in his R&D and settled on a normal fuse. I just don't get how you guys feel your sound is neutral. What I read from your descriptors is that your are adding color. If that is what floats your boat, go for it. IMHO it is totally unnecessary.

It's in the nature of audiophiles that are commonly in between DIYers and the complete non - techies IMO. They just can't leave it alone (I am part of the they in some situations)

 

[microstrip]

The fuse we use has been selected in an early stage of the design for low distortion and reliability. It’s not an “audiophile” fuse but an industrial heavy duty type. It will survive numerous power on cycles and not degrade. In audiophile terms it excels in dynamic expression and images large. The Extreme has been voiced around this fuse in what we consider to be neutral. Changing it obviously does have an impact on voicing.

I think that this is the important aspect. This particular fuse is the reference for the designer.
I do not change the type of fuses mainly because IMHO audiophile fuses can affect reliability - it is why I always use certified fuses by known industrial suppliers such as Bussmann or Littelfuse .

A fuse is a complex entity - it has most of the intrinsic problems of a power cable and additionaly it must protect our equipment.

 

[steve williams]

How does neutral sound? Its a particular perceived distortion in the playback AND its exact opposite.

I know that sounds odd but essentially what its saying it that whenever one encounters what one thinks is a deviation from neutral....a neutral system will eventually play exactly the opposite, demonstrating that its not a system but rather a recording attribute. Essentially neutral is never being able to identify anything that’s present with every recording other than positive attributes like fast, rhythmic, musical, natural etc., enveloping etc.
You’ll always hear faults in replay....we’re playing recordings which aren’t perfect. A neutral system should typically not demonstrate weaknesses that show up and have an affect on every recording. There’s certainly no such thing as perfectly neutral as every system has its own unique identity.

Something which is totally neutral does not show a localized increase in bass or highs stand out. If what you add accentuates only part of what you are hearing, to me, that is adding color and is not neutral. To me that is what these fuses do as I read the users‘ descriptors

 

[steve williams]

The Extreme has been voiced around this fuse in what we consider to be neutral. Changing it obviously does have an impact on voicing.

what more would you like to know. This speaks volumes