Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Taiko Audio]

Hello Skanda,

In the past there was little to no difference, it was discussed in this thread a while ago, however it might be that time where we should see if things have changed as I've seen RoonAppliance use 1.5Gb+ of memory on larger databases.

 

[Skanda]

Hello Skanda,

In the past there was little to no difference, it was discussed in this thread a while ago, however it might be that time where we should see if things have changed as I've seen RoonAppliance use 1.5Gb+ of memory on larger databases.

Yep I remember the earlier comments around this. I am surprised by what I noticed - I only did the reboot because Roon wasn't responding on my server. Specifically the treble has lost the grain and edge I was hearing yesterday (which was not something I was hearing in my system before). Again, it could be the amp changing as it breaks in but given that its not here today and the reboot is the only thing I changed, I think that it might be the cause.

It could also be something less prevalent with the Extreme because of the ram and threads etc. This was on a rockna server but figured it's worth mentioning to the broader forum.

P.S. I had a great call with EuroDriver last week particularly about the metadata and reccommendation engine and some of the design philosophy on the new software.

 

[wil]

I just upgraded to the latest Taiko/Roon. I was a little reluctant to do so in that my system has been at it's best recently with Roon v537 and Emile's associated tweak in late April. The addition of the Sablon King power cable to the Extreme is probably a significant factor also!

I never experienced the loss of vividness or incisiveness that others described with recent Roon version upgrades. (maybe that was confined to the 555 upgrade?).

I haven't listened a lot yet, but I think it's for the positive in terms of resolution and space. I thought it may have tipped the balance a little too far in that direction at first, but that's probably a little bit of audio paranoia.

Interestingly, Chris at Taiko, told me the latest Taiko upgrade is voiced on the latest Roon version (555?) and not my older version (537) so given that I never experienced the sq drop associated with 537, maybe my experience is different from others. In any case, I'm happy to be hooked up to the Taiko wagon!

Just curious, has anyone else upgraded from 537 (tweaked version)? It is the latest Roon version where one can refuse to upgrade, so maybe I should stay there in case Roon brings on any unwanted versions in the future!

 

[Taiko Audio]

P.S. I had a great call with EuroDriver last week particularly about the metadata and reccommendation engine and some of the design philosophy on the new software.

Yes he updated me on the details of that call, thank you for sharing your insights, much appreciated!

I will try rebooting my Extreme soon, it has a quite considerable uptime again.

 

[oldmustang]

I just upgraded to the latest Taiko/Roon. I was a little reluctant to do so in that my system has been at it's best recently with Roon v537 and Emile's associated tweak in late April. The addition of the Sablon King power cable to the Extreme is probably a significant factor also!

I never experienced the loss of vividness or incisiveness that others described with recent Roon version upgrades. (maybe that was confined to the 555 upgrade?).

I haven't listened a lot yet, but I think it's for the positive in terms of resolution and space. I thought it may have tipped the balance a little too far in that direction at first, but that's probably a little bit of audio paranoia.

Interestingly, Chris at Taiko, told me the latest Taiko upgrade is voiced on the latest Roon version (555?) and not my older version (537) so given that I never experienced the sq drop associated with 537, maybe my experience is different from others. In any case, I'm happy to be hooked up to the Taiko wagon!

Just curious, has anyone else upgraded from 537 (tweaked version)? It is the latest Roon version where one can refuse to upgrade, so maybe I should stay there in case Roon brings on any unwanted versions in the future!

The flatness and lack of emotional involvement became quite noticeable to me after installing build 537 to Roon.

I set Roon from auto-update to ask before installing after the discussions on this forum. Somehow though when I checked after Christoph installed the Extreme operating system upgrades a couple of days ago, I found Roon on the Extreme is now at build 555. I am absolutely certain I didn't give Roon permission to update, and checking the Roon control panel, it is still set to ask before installing.

The latest Roon build is now 571. Anyone care to comment about sound quality with the Taiko team's "insulating" OS upgrades? I'm paranoid about upgrading Roon after my experience with build 537.

TIA,

Steve Z

 

[Taiko Audio]

Just curious, has anyone else upgraded from 537 (tweaked version)? It is the latest Roon version where one can refuse to upgrade, so maybe I should stay there in case Roon brings on any unwanted versions in the future!

One of the best things about this latest update is it “sounds” nearly identical on the last few Roon builds, and even when switching from Roon to TAS. However right after you update Roon there is a very significant amount of network traffic of what appears to be a download of metadata to update your local Roon database. Depending on your library size and internet connection speed this can take anywhere between 1 minute and several hours. Sound quality is still impacted during this initial period.

 

[Taiko Audio]

The flatness and lack of emotional involvement became quite noticeable to me after installing build 537 to Roon.

I set Roon from auto-update to ask before installing after the discussions on this forum. Somehow though when I checked after Christoph installed the Extreme operating system upgrades a couple of days ago, I found Roon on the Extreme is now at build 555. I am absolutely certain I didn't give Roon permission to update, and checking the Roon control panel, it is still set to ask before installing.

The latest Roon build is now 571. Anyone care to comment about sound quality with the Taiko team's "insulating" OS upgrades? I'm paranoid about upgrading Roon after my experience with build 537.

TIA,

Steve Z

I’m hard pressed to hear a difference from 528-571 now. Roon does indeed appear to force updates, I can only run an older build till I restart Roon (status shows “awaiting relaunch”).

 

[Taiko Audio]

I haven't listened a lot yet, but I think it's for the positive in terms of resolution and space. I thought it may have tipped the balance a little too far in that direction at first, but that's probably a little bit of audio paranoia.

Wil, are you currently using the fiber or the copper network interface of the Extreme?

The landscape has slightly changed there with the general perception being copper having the edge on dynamics/vividness and fiber (still) having the clarity advantage. Fiber is also more focused, if you like the clarity fiber gives you but feel it might be overly focused, decreasing your loudspeaker toe in, just a little bit like 1/8-1/4” can do the trick.

 

[dminches]

I’m hard pressed to hear a difference from 528-571 now. Roon does indeed appear to force updates, I can only run an older build till I restart Roon (status shows “awaiting relaunch”).

Emile, do you feel that forced increased network activity is the primary reason for the degradation of the sound quality with Roon?

 

[Taiko Audio]

Emile, do you feel that forced increased network activity is the primary reason for the degradation of the sound quality with Roon?

Hard to pinpoint the exact cause, RoonAppliance now utilizes ~120 execution threads and ~1.5Gb memory, and yes there is an increase in network activity.

With that said, the question is how relevant it all is as it still only occupies ~3% of the Extreme’s memory capacity with a below 0.2% CPU load during music playback. Couple that to a now virtually identical sound from the ~0.3Gb / 5 threads TAS application appears to make it more a matter of how the environment is configured.

 

[Steve williams]

I set Roon from auto-update to ask before installing after the discussions on this forum.

i am fairly certain that when I watched Emile rebuild Roon for me he did check the box "ask before installing updates" and disabled automatic updates

 

[matthias]

Taiko Audio has a great new HP but I am wondering why TAS is not mentioned.

Matt

 

[Taiko Audio]

Indeed WBF member and maintainer @astrostar59 aka "Julian the Fixer" did a great job designing our new website: https://taikoaudio.com/

We still need to add some content and update a few pages, especially to the BLOG section.

If anybody would like to have their system added to our "clients systems" gallery e-mail your photos to contact@taikoaudio.com or send by https://wetransfer.com/ for larger files. That would be much appreciated

 

[ray-dude]

Having a picture of an Extreme under a piano is sure to get audiophile's in trouble with their spouses the world over ("See honey, we can put it over there out of the way" I promise that will move post pandemic, when we have house guests again...

 

[wil]

I wanted to also add a further comment as I am often asked what I heard or didn't hear when I felt there were issues with Roon. The best analogy would be in reply to someone who posted here a few weeks ago that 'surely all of us have used our sound systems in a passive way' For me I have never used my system for passive listening because when my butt is in the sweet spot I always want to hear the best music. And that is what I lost. To me my system was only good when listening to Roon passively. IOW all of the sizzle and more is in this new Roon mod by Emile.

Steve, it sounds like, for you, the new Taiko upgrade to Roon is comparable to the TAS beta you've been using?

Is the TAS beta using RAM cache playback of Qobuz/Tidal streaming? Wouldn't we expect the TAS to be performing better than the upgraded Taiko/Roon (assuming the Roon upgrade is not using cache playback)?

 

[Steve williams]

Steve, it sounds like, for you, the new Taiko upgrade to Roon is comparable to the TAS beta you've been using?

Is the TAS beta using RAM cache playback of Qobuz/Tidal streaming? Wouldn't we expect the TAS to be performing better than the upgraded Taiko/Roon (assuming the Roon upgrade is not using cache playback)?

You’d have to ask Emile that I had no way to compare the two as my Roon was disabled while I was using TAS. I subsequently stated that in my recall of the two I would be hard pressed to tell one over the other. I think Emile said that TAS is slightly more dynamic and transparent. than his Roon mod

 

[matthias]

Is the TAS beta using RAM cache playback of Qobuz/Tidal streaming? Wouldn't we expect the TAS to be performing better than the upgraded Taiko/Roon (assuming the Roon upgrade is not using cache playback)?

Certainly Emile can confirm but I can imagine that it is the case because Steve reported that there is a small delay after starting playback with TAS.
Yes, I would also expect (or do I hope?) TAS sounding better than Roon.

Matt

 

[Steve williams]

Certainly Emile can confirm but I can imagine that it is the case because Steve reported that there is a small delay after starting playback with TAS.
Yes, I would also expect (or do I hope?) TAS sounding better than Roon.

Matt

By the time Emile updated my Roon and disabled the TAS I’m not so sure I could say I heard a delay

 

[Mobiusman]

what I find wonderful about this entire TAS project is that from what I am seeing this is an open platform that has the ability to perform in exactly the way we as a community want it to. There is no doubt in my mind that the direction in which Emile takes this server will be based on his judgement together with the collective opinions of everyone here. IOW Emile is determined to make this the very best SQ as well as creating a metadata system that will work for all of us. I don't recall when I got a life time subscription to Roon that my input was solicited as to what I would like to see and hear.

The give and take here with respect to ideas and opinions is so vastly different than the Roon forum and community. They think they know what's best for everyone and to have an opinion there serves only for them to say we are full of hot air and don't know what we are talking about. And as I have read, only 5% of all Roon subscribers are audiophiles. So here in our neck of the woods I find that we have a manufacturer whose sole interest is to provide the best SQ to his users and to solicit our input as to how the metadata should be searched

Emile started with a blank slate and only one goal. The fact that this is a work in progress and he is soliciting our input as he goes, for me speaks volumes as to how committed he is to bring us the very best. I have made the decision that for my ears Roon is not the answer and I am all in for whatever Emile does as I feel that he has taken up the gauntlet as to metadata and is exploring all feasible options having solicited outr input

I totally agree with Steve. who is the one who turned me onto the Taiko Audio Extreme and how it changed his overall audio relatedness. As a long-term, friend, I had a sense of how Steve listens, saw huge parallels with myself and took the leap. Yes the sound quality has fluctuated from time to time, but bottomline, I am listening to more music daily than I can ever remember (easily 5+ hours a day and up to 15 hours).

Dealing with Emile and Christoph has been a dream. They are so responsive and their objectives largely match mine. So as an Extreme owner I am more than 100% thrilled. I have seen enough to realize that Emile is a combination, of an audiophile, brilliant computer scientist, and perhaps most important, a very good human being who is passionate about producing the best for his customer base, who seem to essentially universally trust Emile's objectives and goals. I have a very elaborate system, but the cost of and Taiko SGM Extreme is not a pitance for this newly retired guy with an income reduction of 80%. BUT to date, the Extreme and its impact on my listening and related personal happiness from my system ranks as the single best investment I have made during my decades of being audiophile.

For me at this point on my audiophile front, Emile, Christoph and his other new employee's are my guide. I will cherish any improvements they make as I continue to enjoy, make that be thrilled to be privileged to be able to own a Taiko SGM Extreme and have a system capable of revealing most of it's current abilities as it continues to progressively evolve at an amazing rate in my opinion.

Bravo Emile, Christoph and all of the other contributors at Taiko Audio. You are my kind of people.

 

[matthias]

By the time Emile updated my Roon and disabled the TAS I’m not so sure I could say I heard a delay

Steve, I was referring to your post #4128.

Matt