Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

With respect to the Taiko Extreme how do you connect it to your DAC

  • USB

    Votes: 49 69.0%
  • Ethernet

    Votes: 10 14.1%
  • Both USB and Ethernet

    Votes: 6 8.5%
  • AES/EBU

    Votes: 8 11.3%
  • Dual AES/EBU

    Votes: 1 1.4%
  • Other

    Votes: 5 7.0%

  • Total voters
    71

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Yes I know.
what I was commenting on was that i remembered it when the TAS was first installed but not sure it was there at the end. Perhaps I was loving the music too much and if it was there, no big deal
 
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Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
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Having a picture of an Extreme under a piano is sure to get audiophile's in trouble with their spouses the world over ("See honey, we can put it over there out of the way" ;) I promise that will move post pandemic, when we have house guests again...
I thought it was a fun addition. Which reminds me I need to find one in my mailbox involving a cat loving the Extreme.
 
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matthias

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2019
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Hard to pinpoint the exact cause, RoonAppliance now utilizes ~120 execution threads and ~1.5Gb memory, and yes there is an increase in network activity.

With that said, the question is how relevant it all is as it still only occupies ~3% of the Extreme’s memory capacity with a below 0.2% CPU load during music playback. Couple that to a now virtually identical sound from the ~0.3Gb / 5 threads TAS application appears to make it more a matter of how the environment is configured.
So there seem to be no significant SQ differences between Roon and TAS.

Matt
 
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Taiko Audio

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I am listening to more music daily than I can ever remember (easily 5+ hours a day and up to 15 hours).
I wouldn’t mind spending my own retirement like that one day :)
 

Taiko Audio

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So there seem to be no significant SQ differences between Roon and TAS.

Matt
With the last update applied they sound almost identical. TAS does have a very slight edge in transparancy and detail at this stage. But it’s still early days for TAS.
 

Taiko Audio

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Found it:

AE445010-85AE-4BEC-84CA-909008340F40.jpeg
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
May 30, 2010
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wil

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2015
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With the last update applied they sound almost identical. TAS does have a very slight edge in transparancy and detail at this stage. But it’s still early days for TAS.
Interesting. So, (please correct me if I have this wrong): Even with TAS caching streamed files and playing them back from RAM and so removing associated network noise, the Taiko/Roon update is still virtually the same as the TAS beta.

I wonder what would explain this? Shouldn't the isolation from the network give the TAS beta additionally better sq?
 
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Taiko Audio

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Feb 10, 2017
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Doesn't it void the warranty? :)
Admittedly we did not test this particular application, I would expect more serious issues should the cat decide to start using it as a litter box.
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
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I wonder what would explain this?
A larger degree of immunity for noise induced by processing overhead on the server part of core-endpoint distributed music playback software.
 
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oldmustang

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Dec 2, 2012
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Dec 8, 2019
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That’s where I take my naps too — right on top of my Taiko Extreme. The cat has exceptionally good taste.

Steve Z
Interesting which side the cat chose. The CPU side is the warmer one, but the transformer side has more vibration. Maybe the cat prefers the purring?
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
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Interesting. So, (please correct me if I have this wrong): Even with TAS caching streamed files and playing them back from RAM and so removing associated network noise, the Taiko/Roon update is still virtually the same as the TAS beta.

I wonder what would explain this? Shouldn't the isolation from the network give the TAS beta additionally better sq?
I'd be inclined to state there's no such thing as network isolation but that would be controversial so let's call that hypothetical. Going from that as an hypothesis your networking setup is just another means of voicing or shaping sound, like changing interconnects or footers. Something interesting to try is pulling the network cable while playing music, while using different switches and/or network setups and gauge the SQ delta between having the cable connected and disconnected. Someone just using a simple Netgear GS108 will likely find the difference to be pretty minor. The best way to go would be for all Extreme users to use the same switch, we can then configure the Extreme's network ports to interact optimally with that switch, leading to better, or at least more consistent performance across various systems. Having come to that realisation we are now designing a switch ourselves. We are not interested in competing in the switch market, but we are interested in getting similar performance for all Extreme owners, so this switch will only be available to our customers. If it weren't for Corona it would have been available already, I estimate it's about 4 months away now.
 
May 12, 2018
54
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Perth, WA
Hard to pinpoint the exact cause, RoonAppliance now utilizes ~120 execution threads and ~1.5Gb memory, and yes there is an increase in network activity.

With that said, the question is how relevant it all is as it still only occupies ~3% of the Extreme’s memory capacity with a below 0.2% CPU load during music playback. Couple that to a now virtually identical sound from the ~0.3Gb / 5 threads TAS application appears to make it more a matter of how the environment is configured.
Hi Emile,

For reference, how many execution threads and memory was was RoonAppliance using before the "tweak"?

G
 

matthias

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2019
338
103
48
Germany
Regarding the discussions prior to this post between Steve and others, I have personally recommended Steve to not change anything for the following, imho very solid reasons:
Steve has no wired ethernet in his room, he uses a Netgear Orbi with a single high quality copper ethernetcable to his Extreme, so this is a wireless connection, and an area I need to spend some time on to investigate the potential merits off.
Hi Emile,

did you find some time to investigate the potential merits of WiFi?
Thanks

Matt
 
Mar 2, 2020
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Interesting. So, (please correct me if I have this wrong): Even with TAS caching streamed files and playing them back from RAM and so removing associated network noise, the Taiko/Roon update is still virtually the same as the TAS beta.
I dont know if this applies to all Roon core machines but mine downloads the song instantly from Qobuz when I hit play. I can see the activity at my routers SFP port being high for a couple of seconds when I hit play then it goes down. So effectively I can disconnect my network and it will finish the song anyway.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Regarding the discussions prior to this post between Steve and others, I have personally recommended Steve to not change anything for the following, imho very solid reasons:
Steve has no wired ethernet in his room, he uses a Netgear Orbi with a single high quality copper ethernetcable to his Extreme, so this is a wireless connection, and an area I need to spend some time on to investigate the potential merits off. It would be quite obvious to purchase a LPS for the Netgear Orbi, and undoubtedly have a change in sound, Steve is willing to do just that, but since it's all a work in progress, I have adviced him to keep his money in his pocket for now. Do note Steve is reporting more then satisfying performance from his setup, even in direct comparison to his vinyl and tape.
That is exactly how I bring signal from my Orbi Router to my sound room. I stream wireless from my Orbi Router to to an Orbi Satellite that has a SMPS and several Ethernet inputs. I must admit that the only changes I made to my network was to buy an updated cable modem card which is in the same room as my router

I also purchased an ARRIS SURFboard SB8200 DOCSIS 3.1 Cable Modem and replaced the cheap SMPS with a LPS . Also I replaced the SMPS on the Orbi Satellite in my sound room with a second LPS. Those changes helped my sound quality immensely. As Emile stated when I built my sound room I did not factor in bring coax cable into the sound room. My only option short of bringing cable from downstairs to my sound room through the walls and ceiling was to stream wirelessly which I have done from day1 and have been totally immersed in the sound.

Finally the position of my satellite in my sound room occupies space which by all accounts would be considered incorrect....I have placed my Orbi Satellite directly behind my huge Lamm amps and power supply and there is no audible extraneous noise. Seeing the picture has raised much comment however I can say that I have found zero negative sonic changes with my satellite on the ground behind my amp

https://whatsbestforum.com/media/0-jpeg.378/
 
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Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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The best way to go would be for all Extreme users to use the same switch, we can then configure the Extreme's network ports to interact optimally with that switch, leading to better, or at least more consistent performance across various systems.
makes sense.

Having come to that realization we are now designing a switch ourselves. We are not interested in competing in the switch market, but we are interested in getting similar performance for all Extreme owners, so this switch will only be available to our customers. If it weren't for Corona it would have been available already, I estimate it's about 4 months away now.
can't wait.

.....keeping Extreme.......as extreme as possible.:cool:
 

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