Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

IMO this is the best thread ongoing here at WBF thanks to an involved community as well as Emile and his wonderful team committed to one thing only......the very best SQ and yes TASin it's infancy is already better than a mature Roon

I second the wishes on a safe and happy Holiday Season
I was testing code with Wilson till past midnight last night. I now have a RME ADI-2 FS headphone DAC and wow it allows me to hear a lot.

Every snippet of code has its sonic signature. Wilson is targeting having the Gapless player prototype to Emile next week.

We are thinking about having a second Alpha release, before producing a Beta with a degree of robustness that the Beta testers deserve

The good news is that we are continuing to discover stuff that makes a significant difference. Emile had a long testing session earlier this week and identified some coding strategies which Wilson developed that raise the SQ to a new level.

A safe and happy holiday season to all
 
Great to hear all the awesome sonic goodness. Does TAS use HQPlayer NAA as its backend? Or its own backend SW? If not it would be interesting to see / hear how that would sound.
 
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It supports both actually (thank you to the team for taking a detour and supporting us HQP+NAA upsampling folks).

In the alpha I have they are neck and neck (maybe a slight edge to HQP+NAA, when you isolate NAA on a CPU), but I'm sure that the native backend will likely create some separation over time. Very much looking forward to hearing the next alpha/beta, and hearing how much progress the system has made.
 
Anyone compare this monster against more modest offerings like the sonore signature tendu or Pjnk Faun.
 
Anyone compare this monster against more modest offerings like the sonore signature tendu or Pjnk Faun.
Not directly. But I retired my Sonore ultraRendu with Signature power supply in favor of an Innuos Zenith. The Extreme and the Innuos were not even close. Nor are their prices. The Innuos is competitive within its price range, but while the delta between very expensive DACs and more modestly priced DACs has gotten smaller in recent years, I am not aware of any server at any price that compares sonically, in build quality, and certainly not in on-going development and customer service with the Taiko Audio Extreme.

We all love a good underdog story, but in this case the reality is, there ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

Steve Z
 
Thanks for the reply. I’m on the verge of retiring my sonore as well. I just don’t get all the processing power that’s being put into a simple music player. I can see where clocking or timing is of utmost importance but to use two CPU and multiple cores seem overdone.
 
Thanks for the reply. I’m on the verge of retiring my sonore as well. I just don’t get all the processing power that’s being put into a simple music player. I can see where clocking or timing is of utmost importance but to use two CPU and multiple cores seem overdone.
Well, it might seem that serving music is a very simple task, but it turns out doing it really, really well is far from simple and more than almost any part of audio, digital music streaming and digital music playing from storage are areas where "everything matters".

To grossly oversimplify, there are two broad approaches to music serving. The first says, computer processes and current demand are harmful to sound quality so we need to use stripped down, low-powered computers to minimize current. Then we add a linear power supply (or two or three) to eliminate SMPS noise. We might even use a very basic, no-frills user interface to control the computer. And we strip down operating systems to the bare minimum and turn off processes and system interrupts and anything that would draw current or divert resources from music serving.That's how we get Raspberry Pi and micro- and ultraRendu servers. To some extent, that's also how we get Innuos servers.

The other approach, not nearly as widely taken and certainly more costly is to say, yes, the above is true, but besides minimizing the load on our server motherboard and peripherals and eliminating all but the essentials, it's more productive for ultimate sound quality to use as a platform a computer that is seemingly way overbuilt, featuring many cores and perhaps even two CPUs. The philosophy being, the actual load on the platform -- processes running, current being drawn -- becomes a much, much smaller percentage of the total capacity, and that load is spread out over more cores.

This approach by its very nature is more expensive, and requires optimization of everything -- memory, mobo architecture, power supplies, accessory boards (USB, ethernet), cooling system, even the enclosure. Not many designers can or will do all this, and to my knowledge, no one does it better and more obsessively than Emile and his team.

The end result however becomes the standard for all other music serving systems, in my opinion. I've gone through a progression of music servers from stock Mac Mini, to highly modified Mac Mini with large external linear power supply, to dedicated server solutions from four different companies. Others have literally spent thousands of hours and dollars building DIY server solutions, often with accessories such as clocks, reclockers, dedicated USB hubs, special industrial memory and the like, and have come to the conclusion that even their best efforts pale in comparison to the Taiko Extreme.

It would be easy to take a look at the pictures of the Extreme, note the price and dismiss it as audio jewelry if not outright audio pornography. That would be very, very wrong and hearing is truly believing. Trying to adequately describe the sound of the Extreme is one of those areas where words are almost inadequate -- you really have to listen to music being served by an Extreme to appreciate how good it truly is.

Steve Z
 
Thanks for the reply. I’m on the verge of retiring my sonore as well. I just don’t get all the processing power that’s being put into a simple music player. I can see where clocking or timing is of utmost importance but to use two CPU and multiple cores seem overdone.
Just to add a further consideration to the discussion.

Vibration matters.

When it comes to vibration control, the Extreme’s 40 kg and the amount of Panzerholz and copper in the internals makes a huge influence to the sound

Take a look at the equipment manufactured by Audionote UK. There are pieces of Panzerholz doing vibration damping on key components.
 
Just to add a further consideration to the discussion.

Vibration matters.

When it comes to vibration control, the Extreme’s 40 kg and the amount of Panzerholz and copper in the internals makes a huge influence to the sound

Take a look at the equipment manufactured by Audionote UK. There are pieces of Panzerholz doing vibration damping on key components.

It absolutely does! Here is an interesting example from last week:
I was doing some new experiments and had a relatively large 600VA transformer that was feeding part of my DIY server just sitting on the floor. This was just a quick experiment - many parts laying on the floor connected with long wires, etc. For safety reasons I wanted to lift the transformer off the floor about an inch. I looked around to see what I could use to lift it and saw some unused Gaia feet nearby. I installed four Gaia feet on the transformer plate - it was the easiest way to lift it off the floor. I went back to my listening positions and had one of these OMG moments. Those feet under the transformer made such a big difference. Positive difference of course! This is not the first time I've experienced that, but it has been a while since the last time I've had a mockup of parts all over the floor :).
I would leave to people's imagination what the 40kg chassis and the Panzerholz and copper in the Extreme can actually do!
 
Thanks for the reply. I’m on the verge of retiring my sonore as well. I just don’t get all the processing power that’s being put into a simple music player. I can see where clocking or timing is of utmost importance but to use two CPU and multiple cores seem overdone.

Please have a look here:


Best

Matt
 
Status update:

We have moved to our new workshop in Oldenzaal, as not entirely unexpected reconstruction work has not completely finished yet but we are up and running. We have our first batch of Extreme servers, "Made in Oldenzaal", shipping out this week to hopefully arrive before Christmas.

TAS:
Wilson is relentlessly coding away on the TAS beta release, as an anecdote of our commitment to sound quality, he has coded various encryption algorithms to allow multiple file downloads from Qobuz to facilitate gapless playback. However these all impact sound quality, so Wilson has come up with a (imho brilliant) alternative approach which he is working on now. He did lose a few weeks because of this which means the beta will not launch before the Christmas holiday as originally planned. On a positive note it will have gapless playback and we have discovered a few mechanisms to improve sound quality even further, we currently have 4 different players all with a small but noticeable difference in sound "signature". We may just include all 4 of them in the beta, you will then be able to switch between them from the remote if so desired, just as a display of the impact on sound quality of (relatively rather minor) coding differences. Edward has meanwhile started on the design of a new interface from scratch based on your feedback and requests, this will however not make it to the first beta release.

PCIe to USB bridge:
We have now secured enough parts to construct enough USB cards for each Extreme owner. The biggest hurdles were the Audionote Kaisei capacitors we selected and the Crystals. These are now on order and estimated to arrive end of January. To give you an idea of how it looks I'll attached a photo of our prototype mock-up, the yellow patch wires are there for firmware programming mainly, it also looks a bit untidy due to us having exchanged parts multiple times as a direct result of listening tests as every single component, no matter how small, does have it's impact on sound. I've blacked out our clocking circuitry as it has some innovations we'd like to keep to ourselves for now, this will be covered by a Panzerholz vibration dampening enclosure.

usb1.png

Switch:
It's here, we're going to play with it a little bit first and will share details later.

DIY:
We are considering making some of our technology accessible to the DIY market. The reasoning behind it is not as much commercially driven, but more to expand on our feedback / test pool. Feedback is the main driver behind our technological advances, there are a lot of factors involved in determining what affects perceived sound quality in which way and we feel this may accelerate our research in this field. Things we are considering are an affordable chassis and clean high current power supplies. I should mention that this does not give you an Extreme on the cheap but it will allow more people to play around with adequately cooled and powered high-end computing platforms. We have shipped out some "goodies" to forum member @nenon who is quite active in the DIY computer building scene to gauge viability/practical applicability.

Feedback:
As we now have around 25 dealers/distributors around the world a significant amount of Extremes are being sold and are supported through them. Please do not let that get in the way of sharing your experiences with us. Again this is the main driver behind our product development so do not hesitate to share your experiences with us, either on this forum or by e-mailing us at contact@taikoaudio.com . Your feedback helps!
 
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It.s early days, but we have started to map out the GUI

We consulted with UX professionals and followed their sign posts to come up with a UI that has the potential to give a good and non frustrating experience
 

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Roon Core update 1.7 (build 710) pending. Safe to update?

Although our system is still boxed up due to our recent move, I'm confident it's safe now. The "immunity" update we rolled out back in June has held up through all updates since then. What is still audible is a significant increase in disk and/or network activity but that only tends to take place for a period of time directly following an update when Roon downloads new metadata and updates its database. I did update a system this morning with a ~15.000 album library where this took about 30 minutes.
 
Status update:
...

DIY:
We are considering making some of our technology accessible to the DIY market. The reasoning behind it is not as much commercially driven, but more to expand on our feedback / test pool. Feedback is the main driver behind our technological advances, there are a lot of factors involved in determining what affects perceived sound quality in which way and we feel this may accelerate our research in this field. Things we are considering are an affordable chassis and clean high current power supplies ...

Hi Emile,

Are you considering packaging the chassis and power supply, like Core Audio in Budapest (DAIDO MUSIC SERVER (coreaudio.eu)), or having separates? Also, are you considering furthering research on switched mode power supplies?
 
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