Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Taiko Audio]

It'll be interesting to see if all the Extreme owners get this special setup service when the Beta comes available.
USB drivers, system specific drivers, specific DACS that individuals are using, previous changes in eveyone's Extreme...it all seems like a huge task. No one from Taiko has been into my Extreme since the Roon update deal and even then it felt like the goal was to get in and get out as quick as possible. With hundreds of Extremes in the field, it feels there will be a generic upgrade to Beta but how can Taiko handle the nuanced changes that Williams, MikeL and others are getting? (Maybe I'm having Extreme upgrade envy......)

I can imagine it to appear that way. However all this “attention” involves rolling out a high volume of bugfixes and updates to the alpha, sometimes with just 1-2 days in between. This is indeed very labour intensive which is why the alpha was only installed on a small number of Extremes with their respective owners being made aware of a potential large amount of teamviewer sessions. All of these updates will be incorporated into the beta. The version which Steve reported on above will be the beta release. Wilson and Edward are working on the manuals and an installer which should minimize rollout time right now. Also of paramount importance is the incorporation of an automated update procedure which will allow users to apply updates themselves by pressing a button as indeed by now it would take several weeks for us to manually apply an update to all Extremes.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Emile, I was thinking of something like a Paul Hynes SR-7 DR rail, which is the opposite of noisy!

One of the interesting concepts you've introduced, and @nenon has also expounded on the AS thread, is the notion that the Taiko DC-ATX adapter — which I have no doubt will trounce anything else on the market — is best fed with an unregulated energizing DC rail.

I know a lot of people using high-quality, double regulated supplies like the SR-7T and SR-7DR to energize the HDPlex DC-ATX, who will replace their existing HDPlex DC-ATX adapters for the Taiko. What will be really interesting is the experiments that prove or disprove whether a cheaper, but unregulated, energizing supply outperforms these SR-7 units.

The question is how low noise it will be when submitted to a variable, peaky and/or high current draw. You will always have a recovery time after a current draw spike for example, and usually a bit of ringing. Looking forward to (more then) a few face-offs

 

[austinpop]

Looking forward to (more then) a few face-offs

Same here! As an Extreme owner, I feel privileged that this will be just an academic interest for me now!

 

[Alrainbow]

Considering the amount of work that went into determining that I'm not disclosing that right now, I'll say it's a fine balance between achieving power conversion and filter efficiency.

I would think at this price point individual LPS would have been used. reg smps harmonics occur both above and below switching freq used. I agree at low current plenty can be done to lower its effects. Regarding mainboard they too have SMPS and chokes as part of there cleaning up of noise.

 

[heebrog]

So again thank you to Emile as I now have complete use of all the buffers. My previous default was PCM 2048 and DSD 8192. After yesterday my new default buffers are PCM 4096 and DSD 8192

Thanks Steve for the tantalising update!

To the TAS Alpha users who use HQP;
Do these buffers settings matter as well?

 

[Taiko Audio]

Thanks Steve for the tantalising update!

To the TAS Alpha users who use HQP;
Do these buffers settings matter as well?

They have no effect on HQ Player.

 

[steve williams]

as I said, these discussions are above my pay grade. However what I can say for sure is that the deletion of the JL Sounds driver and installing the TAS driver made a huge uptick in sound quality. Up until this past week my system as it was (Amanero USB Board) was limited to full use of TAS. Once Emile did his magic and inserted the driver I have been glued to my seat as the sound is just so much better. The best way I can describe what I noticed different
...better dynamics
...a virtually non existent sound floor
...pristine clarity
...3D sound stage

 

[Taiko Audio]

Subscription link to signup for the TAS Beta for those who missed it: TAS Beta program

 

[jbrrp1]

as an aside to all the DIY stuff going on here which is above my pay grade, I have to report another epiphany I had yesterday thanks once again to Emile

TAS alpha has been on my system for the past 3 months and I have yet to go back and play Roon as the SQ on TAS clearly bests that of Roon

What I did learn several months ago however was that I was limited in the extent to which I could avail myself to the full benefits of TAS. This became obvious immediately when I could not access PCM buffers above 2048 n or could I access the adaptive-1 or adaptive-2 buffer. The explanation was that I was limited by virtue of the fact that my DAC (Lampi Pacific) was based on a USB board which used Amanero which was the reason for my limited access to TAS buffers. I had a long talk with Emile as well as Lukasz about the new JL Sounds USB board which has replaced Amanero and is able to not only take full use of TAS functions such as full use of all buffers BUT so also allows me to now use the TAS driver as well as being able to take full advantage of Emile's upcoming proprietary USB board as well as his switch.

With Lukasz giving instructions from the sidelines as well as providing me with the JL Sounds USB board with a schematic on how to insert the new USB board and with the assistance of a local Lampizator approved technician the board was replaced on Monday. First sound impressions with this new board were all positiver but nothing that stood out as sounding vastly different......until yesterday.....

With Emile's genius and the help of Team Viewer Emile installed the TAS driver and removed the JL Sounds driver. According to Emile there is now a new player being used and there were SQ upgrades that he also installed

He was finished yesterday before I even had breakfast. I sat down to listen and I didn't emerge from my sound room let alone leave my seat for the next 5-6 hours. What I heard yesterday was beyond even what I have heard before with TAS sans TAS driver and the new JL Sounds USB board. The sound floor was so low that previous levels on my gain control were reduced. What for me was so dramatic was the pristine clarity of what I was hearing. I thought that clarity, dynamics, and lowered sound floor were amazing before but yesterday had me glued to my seat. The sound stage was 3D and there was top to bottom clarity. There were songs that I have used for years to demo certain features . One song I commonly use is "You Want It Darker" by Leonard Cohen who we all know had a deep gravely voice. Every time I play that song his voice sounds loose and gravelly. Yesterday I can honestly say that this looseness in the bottom register was completely gone and yesterday was the first time that I can say that I heard his voice the way I remember it

Bottom line is TAS remains the real deal. Whenever Emile asks me if I am interested in trying some new features in the alpha version I become like a kid at Christmas visiting toyland as every listening session brings new rewards.

So again thank you to Emile as I now have complete use of all the buffers. My previous default was PCM 2048 and DSD 8192. After yesterday my new default buffers are PCM 4096 and DSD 8192

To all the readers here who are Extreme owners I would strongly encourage all of you to avail yourself of the Beta version when it becomes available because if you think what you are hearing now is great, all I can say is "you ain't heard nothing yet"

we are lucky to have this team working 24 x 7 on making the SQ of TAS the best there is. What I heard yesterday was a quantum leap above what I was hearing before

I even got a notice yesterday from Test Flight that automatic changes were made to my Taiko Remote. You guys rock!!

Thanks for your posting on this experience with the new USB input on your Lampi Pacific. I, too, run a Pacific (SE), and added an Extreme to my system back in mid-November. I certainly have been enjoying better sound quality with this server feeding the Pacific vs. my previous Antipodes DX II, and I am intrigued about the potential for upgrade on the Pacific side.

When Emile helped get my Extreme set to rights, he mentioned that the JL Sounds USB board would be a good improvement, but I have balked at sending my Pacific out to get this done, because I don't want to live without it through the winter, thinking summer might be a better time to have an absence, since I'm a lot busier away from home then and not listening to music near as much.

But you were able to get it installed locally. Hmmmm..... Could you please tell me more about how you arranged that process? That sounds ideal to me. I had proposed to Lampi NA that I do the install work myself, since I am handy enough with soldering iron, and actually had replaced a failed power switch module in my Pacific last summer, with their blessing. They were not keen on me taking this on myself.

I now cannot wait to get the Beta TAS on my Extreme, and would love to add this JL Sounds USB improvement to the mix! I'm already liking what I am hearing, and better would be better yet. TIA!

 

[steve williams]

Thanks for your posting on this experience with the new USB input on your Lampi Pacific. I, too, run a Pacific (SE), and added an Extreme to my system back in mid-November. I certainly have been enjoying better sound quality with this server feeding the Pacific vs. my previous Antipodes DX II, and I am intrigued about the potential for upgrade on the Pacific side.

When Emile helped get my Extreme set to rights, he mentioned that the JL Sounds USB board would be a good improvement, but I have balked at sending my Pacific out to get this done, because I don't want to live without it through the winter, thinking summer might be a better time to have an absence, since I'm a lot busier away from home then and not listening to music near as much.

But you were able to get it installed locally. Hmmmm..... Could you please tell me more about how you arranged that process? That sounds ideal to me. I had proposed to Lampi NA that I do the install work myself, since I am handy enough with soldering iron, and actually had replaced a failed power switch module in my Pacific last summer, with their blessing. They were not keen on me taking this on myself.

I now cannot wait to get the Beta TAS on my Extreme, and would love to add this JL Sounds USB improvement to the mix! I'm already liking what I am hearing, and better would be better yet. TIA!

I would definitely not advise you to take on the soldering. Thes are 22 gauge wire going into tiny little ports. If you do use there Lampi repair tech the turn around should be quick be quick.
As far as the benefit of the board, I can tell you this...once I got the new board installed, Emile was not available until the next day to install TAS driver, remove JL Sounds driver and install the alpha updates, so I had a day to listen. Frankly there was little change in the sound between the two boards. But when Emile installed TAS driver I was once again gobsmacked with a "wtf just happened" moment. I keep telling Emile that the TAS sound and developing TAS platform has me sold as I only care about SQ and just when you think you're there Emile finds a way to make it even better

 

[gds7368]

Here is a screen shot of the iPad App that comes with the BetaView attachment 73646

Does anyone using TAS find yourself missing the metadata of Roon? Currently using Aurender software but when I used Roon it easily let me find what to listen to next ... whole evenings of music just organically evolved. Now at the end of every album I’m “stuck” figuring out what’s next. Does TAS have metadata? If not, will TAS get it?

 

[steve williams]

Does anyone using TAS find yourself missing the metadata of Roon? Currently using Aurender software but when I used Roon it easily let me find what to listen to next ... whole evenings of music just organically evolved. Now at the end of every album I’m “stuck” figuring out what’s next. Does TAS have metadata? If not, will TAS get it?

I would say “ be patient little grasshopper”

My bet is on Emile and his team

 

[Pinu]

Hi, really great to hear all the great feedback and reports on TAS, is the beta version also available to the EVO owners. I would love volunteer as a Beta tester ... thanks

 

[oldmustang]

Does anyone using TAS find yourself missing the metadata of Roon? Currently using Aurender software but when I used Roon it easily let me find what to listen to next ... whole evenings of music just organically evolved. Now at the end of every album I’m “stuck” figuring out what’s next. Does TAS have metadata? If not, will TAS get it?

I'm not sure about your use of the word "metadata". My understanding of the word Metadata is that information embedded in or attached to the music file(s), independent of what player is in use.

Metadata tags are specific fields for such things as Artist, Album Artist, Title, Track Number, Artwork, etc. These fields are formally defined and software exists for filling in empty fields or overwriting information already contained in the fields.

If the fields do not contain any information, then regardless of what player is in use no information will be displayed *unless* the player is written such that it will make use of what information it does have to attempt to fill in the rest. Roon utilizes a very sophisticated relational database to link all kinds of external information (reviews from Allmusic.com, as one example) to construct their User Interface (UI), as well as being able to use either user tags or Roon's "best guess" metadata.

Perhaps you could describe how Roon assists in finding the next music to listen to -- that is, what is your process in interacting with Roon to find more music? Are you speaking of Roon Radio, which uses an algorithm to select the next track to play at the end of a user-selected queue, or some other process Roon's UI facilitates?

The LMS framework that TAS partially uses as an underlying structure provides a variety of functions that can be enabled, including "Don't Let The Music Stop", which by its description sounds very much like Roon Radio. However, at this time the TAS alpha's DLTMS module is not functional (at least for me).

However, it is possible that DLTMS may be function in future betas. I know I've asked about various features and Emile, Wilson and Ed are very open to suggestions to improve the user experience so long as sound quality is not impacted. If you could describe in more detail what Roon does to make music discovery easier I'm sure they will research the idea of adding that functionality to TAS.

Steve Z

 

[shaned]

Hi, really great to hear all the great feedback and reports on TAS, is the beta version also available to the EVO owners. I would love volunteer as a Beta tester ... thanks

Hi Pinu, I think TAS is going to be rolled out to all the Extremes first and after that has been completed then it will be rolled out to the Evo but it will be an optimised version of TAS specially for the EVO and not just a port of the Extreme version. I might and probably am wrong on this but I think getting TAS to work on the Extreme first is the priority and then work can begin on the EVO Version.

 

[Pinu]

Hi Pinu, I think TAS is going to be rolled out to all the Extremes first and after that has been completed then it will be rolled out to the Evo but it will be an optimised version of TAS specially for the EVO and not just a port of the Extreme version. I might and probably am wrong on this but I think getting TAS to work on the Extreme first is the priority and then work can begin on the EVO Version.

 

[EuroDriver]

You got the Road Map !!

 

[marty]

If you could describe in more detail what Roon does to make music discovery easier I'm sure they will research the idea of adding that functionality to TAS.

Great post! I have an Extreme but have no desire to use any program with it that does not afford the same abilities as Roon for seamless music exploration. To begin, in Roon, you can select the artist and/or work and you get a nice concise mini-review of that work, or artist, or both. Much to my surprise, the reviewers do a nice job and often have good insights. But that's only the beginning. In discussing an artist, it will often tell you that the artist also did 'so and so' and include a blue hyperlink, which can get you to that particular work with the push of a button. For example, I was listening to King Crimson and the posted mini review provided a lengthy description of Robert Fripp's other groups with hyperlinks. 15 minutes later I was deep into a long but well-guided 20+ year tour of progressive rock artists and works that were wonderful, yet all begun because of the hyperlinks in the review of the album I was playing (Court of the Crimson King). The same is true for jazz or classical works which are the main genres I play. For example, I was playing the extraordinary "Bach Trios" album featuring Yo-Yo Ma with mandolinist Chris Thile and bassist Edgar Meyer. (Now there's some musical diversity!) But in Roon, using the hyperlinks in the Bach Trios review, I was able to traverse these light year sized gaps in the musical genres of these artists in a flash. I can't imagine doing this any other way with the efficiency afforded to me using Roon.

Where Roon fails, is the management of playlists, which I rely on a great deal. Playlist filing options are limited and inadequate in Roon. I've collected many playlists in iTunes over the years and have created many more outside of iTunes , now all stored and transferred to my Extreme's SDD. Once you get past 50 entries, playlist management becomes unwieldy in Roon, especially if you have some playlists with hundreds of entries. (Even Beethoven couldn't find half his stuff in some of my playlists!) It would be a great improvement in TAS to do a simple thing such as allow playlists of specific genres or specific artists, record labels, etc.

If TAS would allow the sort of hyperlink jumps made available using Roon's "metadata" (I know I am not using the word correctly), plus better playlist file management, I'd be eager to explore it. But until then, I'll probably rely mostly on Roon, although will consider TAS for straight forward streaming if SQ and not musical exploration is the absolute priority for my listening session. Then again, if SQ is the absolute priority, there's always good old fashioned analog to turn to courtesy of my Dohmann/Reed/ZYX/Zanden rig.

 

[steve williams]

Great post! I have an Extreme but have no desire to use any program with it that does not afford the same abilities as Roon for seamless music exploration. To begin, in Roon, you can select the artist and/or work and you get a nice concise mini-review of that work, or artist, or both. Much to my surprise, the reviewers do a nice job and often have good insights. But that's only the beginning. In discussing an artist, it will often tell you that the artist also did 'so and so' and include a blue hyperlink, which can get you to that particular work with the push of a button. For example, I was listening to King Crimson and the posted mini review provided a lengthy description of Robert Fripp's other groups with hyperlinks. 15 minutes later I was deep into a long but well-guided 20+ year tour of progressive rock artists and works that were wonderful, yet all begun because of the hyperlinks in the review of the album I was playing (Court of the Crimson King). The same is true for jazz or classical works which are the main genres I play. For example, I was playing the extraordinary "Bach Trios" album featuring Yo-Yo Ma with mandolinist Chris Thile and bassist Edgar Meyer. (Now there's some musical diversity!) But in Roon, using the hyperlinks in the Bach Trios review, I was able to traverse these light year sized gaps in the musical genres of these artists in a flash. I can't imagine doing this any other way with the efficiency afforded to me using Roon.

Where Roon fails, is the management of playlists, which I rely on a great deal. Playlist filing options are limited and inadequate in Roon. I've collected many playlists in iTunes over the years and have created many more outside of iTunes , now all stored and transferred to my Extreme's SDD. Once you get past 50 entries, playlist management becomes unwieldy in Roon, especially if you have some playlists with hundreds of entries. (Even Beethoven couldn't find half his stuff in some of my playlists!) It would be a great improvement in TAS to do a simple thing such as allow playlists of specific genres or specific artists, record labels, etc.

If TAS would allow the sort of hyperlink jumps made available using Roon's "metadata" (I know I am not using the word correctly), plus better playlist file management, I'd be eager to explore it. But until then, I'll probably rely mostly on Roon, although will consider TAS for straight forward streaming if SQ and not musical exploration is the absolute priority for my listening session. Then again, if SQ is the absolute priority, there's always good old fashioned analog to turn to courtesy of my Dohmann/Reed/ZYX/Zanden rig.

For me , I follow the path of better sound quality that comes with TAS. IMO any Extreme owner who doesn't avail himself of at least having TAS on their system and to be able to compare, is not checking all of the boxes. I haven't used Roon since November. Perhaps it is just me but the sound quality with TAS plus the TAS driver is so much better than that with Roon that I see no reason to use it. For me it is all about SQ. And this is only the alpha version Emile has always said that SQ is his number one go to first. TAS is an open platform and my bet is on Emile and his team to create an interface every bit as good or better than Roon.

 

[ack]

I've been following this thread with great interest... and I think I am seeing a bit of lingering immaturity in the streaming world. The latest is this "TAS" which now surpasses Roon? And it's still in alpha? At the same time, Roon was all the rage a while ago? And yet once more, there is yet another USB board coming up, that's even better than anything else before it???!? Let me know what you think of this assessment...

-ack