exactly my experience with totalDAC.
now i have to swap the optical for cat6 cable and see how much further i can go here
Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème
- Thread starter CKKeung
- Start date
exactly my experience with totalDAC.
now i have to swap the optical for cat6 cable and see how much further i can go here
is the fiber to copper change significant for local files as well (i.e. generated noise), or just for streaming?
i will experiment here later today
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It definitely sounds as if the change to copper improves both here at Rancho De Luxe.
I was using fiber into my Extreme after briefly re-trying copper UTP ethernet back when that was first brought up some weeks (months?) ago. In my system at that time I thought fiber was clearer and copper ethernet had a softer and slightly fuzzy top end.
However, when Emile was installing his latest OS updates a day or two before installing the USB drivers, he remarked (somewhat surprised I thought) that I was still using fiber. So that prompted me to try switching back to copper ethernet into the Extreme.
Evidently I had been compensating for some deficiencies in my system when I reverted back to the more incisive fiber with it's higher noise level, because when I compared copper to fiber now with the new OS tweaks, both had improved but via copper ethernet the improvements are much more striking and emotionally involving than what I experience with fiber optic into the Extreme.
This improvement (copper vs fiber) with the latest OS and USB driver(s) has held up regardless of whether streaming or playing resident files.
Steve Z
I fully agree, Roon sounds excellent but TAS brings the nuance, for instance the thousands of voices in live concerts seem to be each discernable, it’s a bit overwhelming!
just a note on fibre, in my case it was a huge upgrade removing the fibre completely, i.e I used to have copper->Melco->fibre->Melco->copper extreme, the last leg of fibre removed (on the rationale of isolation), things improved further (texturing and dynamics). It seems the advantage of lowering the noise floor with fibre comes at a cost not worth having anymore, just my 2 cents !
I have reread my post and I see that something is missing.
Where it says
“While I could accept that after the update Roon's sound (which has improved a lot) might be superior to TAS”
it should say
“While I could accept that after the update Roon's sound (which has improved a lot) might be superior to TAS, according to the usual audiophile parameters”
Where it says
“While I could accept that after the update Roon's sound (which has improved a lot) might be superior to TAS”
it should say
“While I could accept that after the update Roon's sound (which has improved a lot) might be superior to TAS, according to the usual audiophile parameters”
...I don't know if the people who designed and developed the hardware and software would agree, but at my place, in this system, both the OS change and a day later, my swap back to copper, both yield a sound with more body and presence. Great energy.
Interestingly, there is no lack or loss of detail, but the overall emotion and *impression* has more body to me.
I always worry that these various changes to software or infrastructure will steal away a little bit of detail or sizzle, which makes me reluctant to change too much too fast. But these updates have retained the best stuff and added some sonic love.
Very sweet. Groovy, even.
Interestingly, there is no lack or loss of detail, but the overall emotion and *impression* has more body to me.
I always worry that these various changes to software or infrastructure will steal away a little bit of detail or sizzle, which makes me reluctant to change too much too fast. But these updates have retained the best stuff and added some sonic love.
Very sweet. Groovy, even.
Got the update 30 minutes ago. Playing now...
I dont want to go to bed
So sweeet, thank you so much Emile and team.
Greetings Jaxho
I dont want to go to bed
So sweeet, thank you so much Emile and team.
Greetings Jaxho
The queue is empty again, enjoy the update everybody, continuing tomorrow AM!
Bob, you can't say that anymore! They're called "baristas" now. Nobody can cancel you for that!
Are you using USB3 with Roon or do you not use Roon? I haven’t yet compared USB3 V USB4 with my MSB DAC…
Hey Emile - is there somewhere you can go to see which USB is loaded as a reminder more than anything?
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I’ve used unshielded copper direct into my Extrene since day one. it has always been so good to my ears that I could never understand all of the tweaking going on other users. I always wondered if there was a common denominator of sorts. In my scans of users systems who seemed to tweak I found fibre seemed to rule the roost. Maybe I got lucky but when I started I asked Emile’s advice as my best shot IMO was copper. He agreed with my way of connection. As time passed discussion on Ethernet cables was started. Once again Emile recommended copper but also now advised unshielded. I was uncertain about mine and checked with Pete at Triode Wire labs and his are unshielded for that very reason. Mine securely connect with Gaertner’s
“Freedom” Ethernet Cable | Triode Wire Labs
triodewirelabs.com
Emile, are you recommending eliminating fiber completely or just the section that runs into the Extreme?
When I first received my Extreme in early 2020, it came standard with a Startech PCIe fiber card and Emile's default recommendation at that time was to go with fiber using Startech SFPs and so not really "tweaking" to start with fiber back then.
When the disastrous Roon update was released in 2020, it was most disastrous for those of us who were on fiber and according to Emile, it was because of the higher power draw of fiber and so I switched to copper. It was on copper that I did most of my network tweaking and it drove me nuts that I could hear tremendous differences amongst different copper Ethernet cables, switches, routers, and modems. How was anyone to know what true "neutral" sounded like? I discovered what I felt was true "neutral" when I disconnected the Ethernet cable from my Extreme and so that became my new reference point. When TAS was released, because it was not network chatty like Roon, the network was no longer the noise jungle it once was and so disconnecting from the network no longer made much difference but because I could still here differences between fiber and copper, in my mind, the network was still not completely transparent and so I continued to disconnect.
With the new update, it's become clear that we have entered a new era with our Extremes and "best practices" have changed. Not only does copper sound uniformly better than fiber (due to higher packet noise according to Emile) but for reasons that are mysterious to me, copper now sounds uniformly better than "disconnecting" from the network and so perhaps it would be helpful, with Emile's assistance, to discuss what we currently know about "best practices." Emile, please correct me if I have misunderstood anything.
1. Avoid fiber
2. Avoid disconnecting from the network
3. Avoid tweaking network settings (i.e. no static IP)
4. Ethernet port 1 potentially sounds slightly better than port 2
5. Cheap, long CAT5 unshielded UTP cable is what sounds best. UTP data pairs are transformer decoupled twice and is preferable to STP. Unshielded sounds better than even a floating shield. Longer sounds better than shorter. I recall Emile is using 45 meters of cheap CAT5 unshielded UTP cabling to his Extreme and so maybe something like the following sounds better than any audiophile cabling?
