Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Rhapsody]

How long does it take?
I have to reboot the Extreme every 2-3 days, using Roon.

Something going on with your network/system. I go for months switching back and forth between Roon/TAS and run three rooms off of the Extreme and never have to reboot it.

I think you will still have the issue with XDMS. Have you tried different usb cables? Have you completely deleted the Roon app and re-downloaded it again? Something is going on. I doubt if it is a Roon SW issue.

 

[Taiko Audio]

A few more photos of the show send to me by Sveda Audio:

 

[Zeotrope]

I haven’t tried deleting and reinstalling Roon. Perhaps Taiko can help with this next week?

USB is a brand new Shunyata Omega, so it’s not that. It’s not the USB because it works for a day or so. Rebooting would not solve it if it were a cable issue.
I believe XDMS will not require a constant network connection, unlike Roon. So it should not be an issue, assuming the network connectivity is to blame. I have a strong gigabit/Eero Wi-Fi 6E service throughout the home. Just had my ISP do a signal strength check on site. No issues.

 

[Taiko Audio]

I haven’t tried deleting and reinstalling Roon. Perhaps Taiko can help with this next week?

USB is a brand new Shunyata Omega, so it’s not that. It’s not the USB because it works for a day or so. Rebooting would not solve it if it were a cable issue.
I believe XDMS will not require a constant network connection, unlike Roon. So it should not be an issue, assuming the network connectivity is to blame. I have a strong gigabit/Eero Wi-Fi 6E service throughout the home. Just had my ISP do a signal strength check on site. No issues.

Drop an e-mail at support@taikoaudio.com , it‘s not normal behaviour.

 

[Zeotrope]

I just changed the router the Extreme is connected to. Maybe that will solve it….

 

[Zeotrope]

Does it matter which Ethernet port is used on the Extreme?
And on the Eero 6E there is a 1Gb or 2.5Gb Ethernet port. Don’t think it matters since I don’t stream music and my service is 1Gb but I used 2.5.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Does it matter which Ethernet port is used on the Extreme?
And on the Eero 6E there is a 1Gb or 2.5Gb Ethernet port. Don’t think it matters since I don’t stream music and my service is 1Gb but I used 2.5

LAN1 is potentially slightly better for SQ, no stability difference. No experience with the Eero 6 but easy to try?

 

[Zeotrope]

LAN1 is potentially slightly better for SQ, no stability difference. No experience with the Eero 6 but easy to try?

Yes, will try it this way and report back if it happens again. Thanks!

 

[oldmustang]

No, it’s not clear why it’s happening. It doesn’t really bother me because I will switch to XDMS as soon as it is released and never touch Roon again.
It must be a software issue - probably with Roon, and perhaps because my internet connection may be unstable, although it’s always stable when I am listening, and I can always connect to the Extreme using VNC (that’s how I reboot it).
I am running the latest Roon versions (on both iPad and Extreme).

What happens is when I try to play a track, Roon‘s interface shows the track playing and fast forwarding/skipping to the end; but nothing happens. No signal is sent to the DAC.

Anyway, not a big deal - Roon will be deleted as soon as XDMS is released!

Definitely not normal but also not an Extreme-related behavior by Roon. I've had this occur with Roon using two different non-Taiko servers. It seems more related to Roon's handling of network latency/polling Roon endpoints when it doesn't get a reply within a certain time period.

Steve Z

 

[Zeotrope]

Definitely not normal but also not an Extreme-related behavior by Roon. I've had this occur with Roon using two different non-Taiko servers. It seems more related to Roon's handling of network latency/polling Roon endpoints when it doesn't get a reply within a certain time period.

Steve Z

Steve, you’re an expert! Posted this on the Roon forum and drew blanks… degenerated into a ‘music servers just send bits and don’t make a difference’

 

[John T]

@oldmustang: I'm on satellite due to rural setting, reclusive tendency, and no other choice! Fiber is actually being buried in my area so hopefully that will soon change! Satellite is well known for latency. Barring bad weather things run pretty smoothly using Roon. Steve, if things are working quite well now, do you think I should be fine when my Extreme arrives? No real issues what so ever. I hope when my Extreme arrives things continue to work as is until I join the rest of the world with fiber. John

 

[oldmustang]

Steve, you’re an expert! Posted this on the Roon forum and drew blanks… degenerated into a ‘music servers just send bits and don’t make a difference’

The Roon forum can make anyone with an open mind look like an expert; not sure I qualify for that accolade but thanks for saying so, Surge.

In the cases where I experienced serious (frequent) "phantom playing" by Roon I traced it to local network problems -- in one case a pricey mesh router that started dropping out briefly and then more frequently until it was also causing noticeable internet connectivity problems with non-music computers, Apple TV and the like in the house; in another instance it was a cheaper unmanaged switch that started failing in a similar way.

There are network analysis tools (apps) that might help diagnose trouble spots, Fing https://www.fing.com/ is one example. In all honesty I just easter-egged it by bypassing parts of my network and substituting known-good devices until the problems resolved. In the process I simplified the topology of my local network, which has helped immensely with both stability and ease of trouble-shooting when problems do occur, and I have the simplest possible connection from ISP-provided modem/router to Extreme:

modem/router > copper UTP jumper > inexpensive switch > 50' UTP copper ethernet > Extreme Lan 1 input.

Pretty straightforward and much less to go wrong.

Until recently I used to go directly from modem/router to Extreme via UTP copper (even simpler) , but following a tip from Emile and posts from another member here I inserted an inexpensive unmanaged switch between the modem/router and Extreme, even though the Extreme is the only device on that branch, to "insulate" the Extreme from the potentially deleterious effects of cheap modem/router combo construction and electrical performance. I had an unused linear power supply from a previous network configuration so I put it back in service with the unmanaged switch (I've been running my modem/router off another linear power supply since early early on).

Evidently, the performance of my cheap switch is better than the performance of my cheap modem/router as I heard a nice uptick in sound quality with the switch. No re-occurences of "phantom play" issues since, though to be fair I haven't used Roon in some time.

Steve Z

 

[oldmustang]

@oldmustang: I'm on satellite due to rural setting, reclusive tendency, and no other choice! Fiber is actually being buried in my area so hopefully that will soon change! Satellite is well known for latency. Barring bad weather things run pretty smoothly using Roon. Steve, if things are working quite well now, do you think I should be fine when my Extreme arrives? No real issues what so ever. I hope when my Extreme arrives things continue to work as is until I join the rest of the world with fiber. John

Hi John,

Funny -- I've been waiting for Starlink satellite service for over a year so I can get off wired (DSL) internet.

If things are working smoothly for you now I don't see any reason why they wouldn't continue to do so with the Extreme. The latency issues in my experience are a function of Roon's touchiness about network polling and are independent of platform. If anything, you should be even more solid with the Extreme as one of the areas Emile took great care with was minimizing the internal latency of processes within the Extreme.

Steve Z

 

[wil]

Steve, Can you share why You’re moving from wired service to satellite?

 

[John T]

Thank You Steve, that's kind of what I figured. Wow DSL! That is an older internet application. I hope Starlink comes to fruition. I think eventually satellite will only improve and latency issues will lessen. I'm on ViaSat, price one pays for seclusion in the middle of a forest. Over 20 years on satellite. Spectrum is the group installing the fiber. I'm hesitant to get too excited, come to find out Spectrum has a max limit how far they go to the residence to bury the fiber. Can't get a straight answer until it is actually available. They do a site survey. My road back to the house is 3/4 of a mile. Not sure if they will let me trench it or not, gravel road, so not difficult to do. So bribery, or perhaps a hostage situation may take place. I could do a live posting if its the latter. Audiophile runs amuck!! John

 

[Steve Williams]

I must be the only one who runs copper from my router satellite to my Extreme. I’ve never once had a single issue and the SQ is extreme”
I also said I would only use one if Emile designs it so I will be trying it at sone point when he releases it

 

[John T]

Steve I'm confused. So you have Satellite, coaxial from the dish to the modem, copper from the modem to router, then copper ethernet from router to Extreme? John

 

[Steve Williams]

Steve I'm confused. So you have Satellite, coaxial from the dish to the modem, copper from the modem to router, then copper ethernet from router to Extreme? John

If I’m the Sreve you mention I use coax cable into the house. My main router is in a downstairs bedroom from which I stream wireless to a satellite in my sound room that has Ethernet in to my Extreme. I do use a LPS for both my router as well as my satellite in my sound room

 

[oldmustang]

Steve, Can you share why You’re moving from wired service to satellite?

Hi Wil,

I live in a semi-rural area of Washington state's Olympic Peninsula and despite our proximity to the Seattle metro area tech hub, there isn't much in the way of high speed internet available on this side of the Puget Sound.

I'm currently on DSL service and my speeds of 12 mbps down, 1.2 mbps up are adequate for non-intensive tasks such as e-mail, Facetime, Slack, etc. however, there are times when my wife would like to stream a movie and I want to stream music that our bandwidth just isn't enough. Starlink's performance is a factor of ten or more better and so far, no data caps. It's just taking forever to roll out to my zip code.

Steve Z

 

[oldmustang]

Thank You Steve, that's kind of what I figured. Wow DSL! That is an older internet application. I hope Starlink comes to fruition. I think eventually satellite will only improve and latency issues will lessen. I'm on ViaSat, price one pays for seclusion in the middle of a forest. Over 20 years on satellite. Spectrum is the group installing the fiber. I'm hesitant to get too excited, come to find out Spectrum has a max limit how far they go to the residence to bury the fiber. Can't get a straight answer until it is actually available. They do a site survey. My road back to the house is 3/4 of a mile. Not sure if they will let me trench it or not, gravel road, so not difficult to do. So bribery, or perhaps a hostage situation may take place. I could do a live posting if its the latter. Audiophile runs amuck!! John

One of the advantages of Starlinks low earth orbit constellation of satellites over older high earth/geosynchronous orbit satellite service is greatly decreased latency. The downside is the huge number of satellites required for seamless service.

We're in a similar situation to you as far as ever getting fiber or coax down our private road -- not enough customers for providers to be interested and as a result their charges to install a run to a single user are astronomical. 5G home service isn't available in my area either, despite my mobile phone showing a 5G connection sitting here in my family room. Frustrating. I had cable internet at 50 mbps down/10 mbps up when in lived in a smaller, more rural area of Montana.

Good luck with the fiber, John.

Steve Z