Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Taiko Audio]

Interesting- I was about to ask about this topic actually. I believe one of the aspirations was for the Extreme to become immune to the home network. Is this now realised with router + switch + distributor? Because then that opens up many possibilities eg. NAS, and ability to remove all the LPS that I formerly had at my router/switch/wifi

The Router is also a NAS.. You can connect 2 USB drives to it.

 

[Blackmorec]

Dear @Blackmorec ,

Again, this was a joy to read, very informative.

Based on your experience would you connect the Taiko router to the ’wall’ with an Ethernet cable, fibre or WiFi (or 4g)?

Wish you all the best.
PS your system must sound amazing!

Blackmorec's Classified List - UK Audio Mart

www.ukaudiomart.com

Hi Di-fi,

I think the answer to your question very much depends on your house and network topography. I have had phenomenally good results with wi-fi, but it takes a lot of effort to get those results.

The amount of traffic hitting any network component will define how much ‘noise‘ that device generates. Ideally, every AUDIO related network component should only see audio related traffic. Also, the conversion of voltage (ethernet) to light pulses (fibre optic) or radio waves (wi-fi) and back is by definition noisy because considerable power is needed and requires 2 power sources that will generate noise.

Initially I believed that an Ethernet cable would be best, but in my situation, with my topography, that proved not to be the case and wi-fi actually sounded better than a really good, 10M ethernet cable. I guess it was the isolation that wi-fi allowed that generated the benefit.

So my answer would be, chose what fits your topology, then make sure you fully optimise it with excellent power supplies, DC cables and vibration control. When you say ‘the wall’ I assume you mean the incoming and outgoing internet streams. If so then I would probably connect the wall to something that first separates audio from household traffic and only pass on to the Taiko router Audio related bits, rather than having the Taiko doing the heavy lifting. While I would have little doubt that the Taiko will do heavy lifting better than any other router, having it only deal with audio related traffic will sound better yet, I‘m guessing.

Appreciate the nice collection of my adverts. Most kind!

 

[Di-fi]

Appreciate the nice collection of my adverts. Most kind!

My pleasure! A collection like yours (Sean Jacobs power supplies, Devialet, Magico anyone?) with top quality devices well taken care of, should sell like hot cakes!! www.ukaudiomart.com/userads.php?user_id=193950

When you say ‘the wall’ I assume you mean the incoming and outgoing internet streams.

Indeed 'the wall' depends how the internet service provider enters your house and if you split with an additional router. I meant to say where the Taiko router connects to internet.

Taiko is not a fan of fiber for this chain and prefers the DAC cable where possible. But the first link still has to be an Ethernet cable and that opens up possibilities, unfortunately, I should almost say.

For clarification I just edited:

For installation to the ’wall’ (modem/router) the Taiko router needs one Ethernet cable with RJ45 connector. Based on your experience would one connect the Taiko router with:
1) Wi-Fi (or 4G) router
2) Ethernet cable
3) Fiber

 

[oldmustang]

Even though mediocre or bad recordings are more exposed with XDMS, the new card, and the new switch, I find there is also a more vivacious, more expressive quality to the music, making even bad recordings more exciting to listen to. This is not of audiophile quality, says my mind, but it's still involving and engaging to listen to, says my heart.

Absolutely my experience as well, Christiaan. While the delta between mediocre and superb has gotten bigger, mediocre has also gotten better or at least more listenable and often completely enjoyable.

Your turn of phrase about the mind versus the heart is exactly what I hope for every time I sit down to listen -- I want analysis to turn off and my emotions to turn on. So far, each innovation -- hardware or software -- introduced by Taiko Audio has moved me closer to the suspension of disbelief and emotional involvement in my music.

Steve Z

 

[microstrip]

I used to for two years, until I replaced the Nagra HD DAC X with a Taiko D700

Thanks. Do you remember which USB driver you used with the Nagra HD DAC X?

 

[Taiko Audio]

Thanks. Do you remember which USB driver you used with the Nagra HD DAC X?

https://taikoaudio.com/taiko-2020/w.../Supported-DACs-and-USB-Profile-Guide_v21.pdf

USB2 - 32 bit

 

[adamaley]

As a new owner of a Taiko Extreme, how does one get on the XDMS test program? Or is it closed for now?

 

[Steve williams]

As a new owner of a Taiko Extreme, how does one get on the XDMS test program? Or is it closed for now?

welcome to the club Adam. Fasten your seat belt and seat back in the upright position and things stowed under the seat. You're in for the ride of your sonic life

 

[Levitator]

Based on my past 5 year history of experimenting with and optimising my network I believe there are 3 elements to optimising sound quality in music streaming.

The better the quality of your audio network’s Physical Layer, the better the sound‘s ‘presentation’ ie. Your brain can construct a more realistic, live sounding soundscape of musicians spontaneously making music in a venue, recorded or engineered

For ALL network components, Better in = Better out. The better the stream quality going into a component, the better its output. Better = less noise, less jitter, less vibration, less cable loss, better power supplies, lower traffic, etc.

The less traffic on the ENTIRE audio network, the better the sound quality. The SOONER you can separate the audio related stream from the rest of the household demand, the better.

If you do the separation WITH the Taiko router, it will not sound as good as doing it before the router, simply on a better in = better out basis. In 5 years of experimenting and reading others’ experiences, I have never seen this Axiom disproven. Improve the input measurably and the output will improve.

So what that tells me is:

Ideally, your Taiko router and switch should be vibration isolated, have the finest power supplies and DC cables attached and have all non-audio related traffic separated off before either device.

In the end, the biggest influence on what you hear will be the power supplies employed, because they generate the bit stream and its the bit stream‘s physical quality that has the most impact on the output of your DAC. Assuming a bit-perfect stream of bits, its how the bits are structured and how much ’extraneous’ voltage and timing deviations are built-in to their structure that matters most.

In my network I had 6 streams of Sean Jacob’s ARC6DC4 power and extensive anti-vibration measures and the resulting sound was utterly gorgeous. That stream was upgraded from DC3 to DC4 to ARC6 and each upgrade brought huge improvements. Upgrading DC cables from really good Neotech to Mundorf silver/gold also brought jaw-dropping changes, mainly to purity, holographic imaging and a sense of reality and being present in the actual venue as the music was being created. Throughout those upgrades my perception gradually changed from listening to really good quality recorded music, to being at a live performance of the music. All the increased information I heard was the result of my brain being able to clearly resolve more information from the resulting soundwaves. The information was already there, but the accompanying ‘noise’ of varying sorts meant that my brain couldn’t resolve it from other parts of the music. Drop the noise and that impacts the brain’s ability to resolve more.

The BIG deal architecturally for a network built for sound quality is that as the stream progresses from incoming wall to final client, it should encounter constantly improving physical layer specs. For example, there no point having a low noise stage, low vibration stage or low jitter stage if the next stage or any downstream stages are worse. In audio, the network is a Stream Conditioning process, which should constantly improve the physical layer until what reaches your DAC or Server is as close to perfect as it can be.

Unfortunately I can no longer hear any of this due to complete hearing loss in one ear 6 weeks ago. I just wanted to pass on some of what I’d learned. And yes, my entire system is now for sale as I need to morph it into something more suitable and fun for a person with single sided deafness.

@Blackmorec - very sorry to hear of your condition. I’ve learned a lot reading your posts over the years and I hope you can find a solution to be able to once again enjoy music or find something else that gives you the same enjoyment.

 

[jelt2359]

The Router is also a NAS.. You can connect 2 USB drives to it.

What about using non-audio NAS upstream? And removing LPS upstream? Good or bad ideas?

 

[joet]

As a new owner of a Taiko Extreme, how does one get on the XDMS test program? Or is it closed for now?

When I asked to join I was told the Alpha is closed. However, there might be opportunity to join when they move to beta.

 

[Christiaan Punter]

When I asked to join I was told the Alpha is closed. However, there might be opportunity to join when they move to beta.

XDMS is not yet released and currently in Alpha state (which is pre-beta). We have been adding users as testers to the Alpha stage via a remote access session during which we install XDMS.

But please be advised that we currently cannot activate any more new users pending streaming service certification. This process is ongoing. If you want to be on the list for XDMS installation and don't mind the odd bug or missing functionality as we work on optimizing the software, just send a mail to support@taikoaudio.com.

 

[pleroma]

Can anyone who has installed the new NIC and switch confirm an improvement when playing local files?

 

[Rhapsody]

Can anyone who has installed the new NIC and switch confirm an improvement when playing local files?

I confirm. As a matter of fact once I installed the Switch/NIC and listened to local files, from that day on I rarely listen to Qobuz or Tidal. I would say for my personal listening I am 100% file listening. For demos I will show what streaming sound like as well.

The latest HDTT 20 files/albums that I have purchased are mind expanding on my systems.

 

[pleroma]

I confirm. As a matter of fact once I installed the Switch/NIC and listened to local files, from that day on I rarely listen to Qobuz or Tidal. I would say for my personal listening I am 100% file listening. For demos I will show what streaming sound like as well.

The latest HDTT 20 files/albums that I have purchased are mind expanding on my systems.

Several of the newer HDTT releases are favorites here as well! These electronics seem hypersensitive to every change. Thanks for the input!

 

[RUIN*ish]

Is the following available online?

A streaming service that has dsd and hdtt?

 

[Rhapsody]

Is the following available online?

A streaming service that has dsd and hdtt?

Nope.

 

[simorag]

Can anyone who has installed the new NIC and switch confirm an improvement when playing local files?

I confirm as well.

The other thing I confirm is that Roon has benefited by the combo significantly, yet the gap between Roon and XDMS has remained unchanged to my ears (XDMS still being significantly more transparent, vivid, snappy).

 

[Christiaan Punter]

After collecting all the feedback on this forum to this day, as well as Emile's input, and gathering my own thoughts, I've compiled the first version of the Taiko Audio Extreme DC Power Distributor Summary Document. I've been careful to mention all the currently available info, as well as include all the relevant questions and answers in a FAQ section. But as usual, when a product is not yet 100% final, I expect to release updates as new information becomes available. The most recent version of this doc can also always be found on the Taiko Audio website's Downloads section.

Taiko Audio Downloads – Taiko Audio

taikoaudio.com

Separately, I will comment on our findings during Monday's hugely interesting listening/tweaking session at Taiko HQ!

 

[Di-fi]

After collecting all the feedback on this forum to this day, as well as Emile's input, and gathering my own thoughts, I've compiled the first version of the Taiko Audio Extreme DC Power Distributor Summary Document. I've been careful to mention all the currently available info, as well as include all the relevant questions and answers in a FAQ section. But as usual, when a product is not yet 100% final, I expect to release updates as new information becomes available. The most recent version of this doc can also always be found on the Taiko Audio website's Downloads section.

Taiko Audio Downloads – Taiko Audio

taikoaudio.com

Separately, I will comment on our findings during Monday's hugely interesting listening/tweaking session at Taiko HQ

Thanks! And now....take a break Christiaan...let it all sink in....and then write it up.
We can wait one more day, go out and enjoy the spring!
Oops it's raining in the Netherlands, go see a movie then and let someone else take care of the sound !