Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Ultrafast69]

In preparation of my 11th week from the order , to make the wait even spicier I have decided to get a Daiza as well.

Talking about isolation from various types of disturbances, has anybody tried grounding devices on the Extreme? Is there a consensus about whether it is better to power it direct from wall plug (assuming one has a decently clean supply and a dedicated line) or via power conditioners?

Daiza is a special piece, you’ll see that once your hands are on it.

Passive grounding can yield positive results, and it’s on my list to try with the Extreme.

I prefer to plug the Extreme in it’s own branch circuit over a conditioner, this assumes the power surety of your home into your listening area is optimized.

 

[JanneW]

Thanks for the pointers to SF Cable and the C14 and C19 retention sleeves. I received my order a couple of days ago and took some time today to use them on the snake pit of power cords behind my equipment rack. They work great and fit every IEC terminated power cord except the huge IEC on the Sablon Prince feeding my Extreme. That IEC plug is milled just a bit larger and the sleeve won't fit. Which isn't too big a deal since I'm using an alternative method (a large block of anti-static hard foam) to support the weight of the Sablon's IEC and 6 AWG conductors.

Have I noticed a difference in sound quality? No, nor was I expecting one. But phantom unplugging -- most usually from brushing a power cord when working behind the equipment rack -- should definitely be a thing of the past.

Many thanks -- this has got to be one of the most helpful threads on the WBF website.

Steve Z

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HI, Where can I get those sleeves?

 

[christoph]

If truly this little LED around the front power switch is all people can gripe about wrt the Extreme, I would say Taiko has no worries. Clearly the users have never used tubes in their systems . There are such easy options to minimize the stated unwanted glare but to mess with the Extreme for something so petty is IMO "extremely" unnecessary

Almost no tubes are as bright as your GM70, Steve
Unfortunately even my VERY big Kronzilla tubes don't glow visibly

 

[Nils]

HI, Where can I get those sleeves?

Sounds like you are a Swede - like me.

I ordered sleeves from this place Friday night local time - they are arriving to my home in Sweden Wednesday eob according to tracking info. Not the same brand as what shown earlier in thread (that one would yield ridiculous shipping fees to Sweden) this looks very similar and shipping fee from US was acceptable - https://www.digikey.se/sv/products/filter/kraftmatningskontakter-tillbehör/341?s=N4IgTCBcDaIMYEYDMACAzgGwKZYG5ZAF0BfIA

 

[simorag]

Daiza is a special piece, you’ll see that once your hands are on it.

Passive grounding can yield positive results, and it’s on my list to try with the Extreme.

I prefer to plug the Extreme in it’s own branch circuit over a conditioner, this assumes the power surety of your home into your listening area is optimized.

Hello Edward, and thank you very much for your reply!

I currently have a Niagara 5000 and will be able to conduct some experiments with power supply (conditioned vs. direct) and cables (Shunyata, Audioquest, potentially Sablon if I have the opportunity). Of course, peace of mind of having surge protection is a key factor as well, and in my case I would have it only with the conditioner in the chain.

As for the grounding, I was aiming to a device with at least three grounding posts, looking at the usual suspects (Entreq, Nordost, Synergistic Research, ...). As this is the kind of product that - even considering the cost - I would not buy blind, the most viable option for me in the short term would be the Nordost QKore, that I could get at home via my dealer.

 

[Nils]

Hello Edward, and thank you very much for your reply!

I currently have a Niagara 5000 and will be able to conduct some experiments with power supply (conditioned vs. direct) and cables (Shunyata, Audioquest, potentially Sablon if I have the opportunity). Of course, peace of mind of having surge protection is a key factor as well, and in my case I would have it only with the conditioner in the chain.

As for the grounding, I was aiming to a device with at least three grounding posts, looking at the usual suspects (Entreq, Nordost, Synergistic Research, ...). As this is the kind of product that - even considering the cost - I would not buy blind, the most viable option for me in the short term would be the Nordost QKore, that I could get at home via my dealer.

I am also very much invested in going deeper on grounding-solution(s).

So far from my side:
- Using Everest and it's chassis grounding solution to implement star-grounding for all chassis (including Extreme's)
- In my system this provides a clear benefit from SQ perspective using simple ground cabling
- Did A/B/A with bespoke Entreq grounding cables -> improved SQ (still using my simple ground cabling in my system though)

Regarding signal grounding no personal experience (yet) - since I am so heavily invested in Shunyata looking to evaluate their upcoming solution "Altaire" when it becomes available. I have seen/heard a lot about Entreq's solution being volatile over time but also delivering good results in some systems -> your mileage may vary.

As Extreme is helping to reduce overall system noise floor -> grounding noise is likely to surface as a thing to attack...

 

[Blackmorec]

Just to mention….I use Sean Jacob’s DC4 regulated LPSs for my entire network and screen star earthed Synergistic Research cabling throughout, with the entire system earthed via my supplier’s low impedance ground. My local Entreq dealer brought an array of wooden boxes large and small and some wildly expensive earth cables. Fully implemented I really didn‘t discern any immediate difference. 2 days later it still sounded more or less the same. I gradually disconnected everything and the only small difference I noted was when the earth cable from an AQVox switch was removed. I had Sean make up an earth cable which I connected to my star earth and if anything I thought the improvement was slightly greater than that achieved with the Entreq.

 

[dminches]

Just to mention….I use Sean Jacob’s DC4 regulated LPSs for my entire network and screen star earthed Synergistic Research cabling throughout, with the entire system earthed via my supplier’s low impedance ground. My local Entreq dealer brought an array of wooden boxes large and small and some wildly expensive earth cables. Fully implemented I really didn‘t discern any immediate difference. 2 days later it still sounded more or less the same. I gradually disconnected everything and the only small difference I noted was when the earth cable from an AQVox switch was removed. I had Sean make up an earth cable which I connected to my star earth and if anything I thought the improvement was slightly greater than that achieved with the Entreq.

Can you explain this further?

1 - What is the DC4 powering?
2 - What is the grounding cable connecting? From what to what?

Thanks.

 

[Cyrus]

I prefer to plug the Extreme in it’s own branch circuit over a conditioner, this assumes the power surety of your home into your listening area is optimized.

Is there a recommended pathway or consensus on: direct to the wall versus to a power supply/conditioner, for the Extreme?

For @Ultrafast69 (specifically): do you mean it is on a circuit separate from your other components; and on it's own grounded line/circuit, separate from the other components? Thanks.

Thanks to everyone for the incredibly warm and open-arms welcome!!!

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...perhaps the consensus is: give the Extreme as much power as you can. Like an amp.

I have had it on it's own dedicated 10ga. line, plugged into the wall.

It is "currently" plugged into a TT7 with all the gear. Both methods are excellent. Excellent.

In a week or two I will run a 6ga. line for the TT7 with all gear into that device. We will see and hear then.

 

[Kingsrule]

Having my Extreme for 2 years, trying all sorts of footers etc., these have made the most significant upticks in sonics for me (besides the Taiko upgrades, obviously!):
1. Plugging in directly to power vs. into a AQ Niagara. I have 3 30 amp lines and this was significant...
2. Placing the Extreme on a Herzan TS-140. Also better than any shelf, footer combinations I tried

I haven't tried any significant pc's on the Extreme yet but have heard the HC versions of them also direct into outlet make a significant improvement...think HC Dragon, etc.

 

[Blackmorec]

Can you explain this further?

1 - What is the DC4 powering?
2 - What is the grounding cable connecting? From what to what?

Thanks.

Hi Dminches,
I use SJ supplies on modem, router, WiFi-ethernet bridge, AQVox SE and Melco S100 PF Ultra, then onward through PhoenixNET and Statement where SJ supplies are built in.

Grounding cable runs from my AQVox SE chassis to the cable screen star earth connection point then on to my low impedance supplier ground.

 

[Taiko Audio]

I'm looking for a few people willing to beta-test a new driver, DCS or MSB owners using Roon ONLY as this specific test only applies to those 2 DAC brands + Roon. This involves evaluating 2 configurations for both 16/44.1 and 24/96 or higher resolution files. Please only apply if you can run several comparisons fast as I'd like to verify this discovery very short term (1-2 days maximum). It would be extra convenient if teamviewer sessions availability is reasonable between 8:00 and 23:00 CET (Amsterdam time).

 

[Steve Williams]

Sorry I can’t help you in that department Emile but I need to offer not only a huge shout out to you but the line from Jerry Maguire “you had me at hello” pretty much sums up my beyond and way over the top appreciation for what you and Taiko have not only done to improve my sound system but so also how you have changed my listening habits where before I was mainly vinyl and tape. Then came the Extreme. Then came the Taiko updates that all of us love and adore. and finally TAS. My goal has always been to follow the path that leads my ears to the best SQ. The best SQ has always been your desire as to what your products give to all of we users. I have said here that my belief is TAS is the path i’m taking. To that extent I gave up completely on Roon 2 years ago because as quirky as TAS is, I felt the SQ always eclipsed Roon. A recent Roon update brought me back there and I felt that Roon had improved significantly sonically however when I A/B’d the two I still felt that TAS had the edge

And today Emile ups his game not by a little but a lot as well as the promise that the best is yet to come ….XDMS is going to be to be probably an improvement over Roon

However, Emile knew I was hosting an audio event at my house this weekend where Lukasz is flying in from Poland and Fred from New York to do a do a soft launch of the new Lampi Horizon. The Extreme is an essential partner in this event and Emile wanted to help provide the best sound so I’m happy to report that Emile installed the new OS ( well actually 75% of the new OS) onto my Extreme.

I hate to admit it the facts but they are what they are. TAS has improved but in my A/B test when switching to Roon I was not prepared for what I was hearing Roon now is not only better than the 2nd last update BUT Roon kills TAS.

All the usual hyperbole right. In a nutshell the presence and dynamics with Roon has kept me in my listening as I type this

i spoke to Emile and asked “ wtf just happened”

He laughed and said that they are still working on that final 25% and TAS will be better BUT better still is the new OS with soon to be released XDMS which will better Roon. I don’t think Emile would do all of this if he didn’t feel he could make something better than Roon

My hat is off to you as always Emile Hopefully we will all see XDMS soon. This has been an amazing journey for all of us

 

[dminches]

Steve, call me jealous.

The audio gods have been good to you. First the Horizon and now the next iteration of the Extreme software.

 

[Steve Williams]

I’m still listening and comparing. I can say one thing i\n favor of TAS……….the bass is better on TAS still….at least in my system

It s the dynamics and energy that is imparted. My guess is that Roon’ is better overall as this boils down to network noise and in the new OS the biggest improvement in network noise was in Roon as much was eliminated in TAS. This is why I’m guessing that last 25% is TAS related (and ultimately XDMS will prove the winner!

 

[Steve Williams]

Steve, call me jealous.

The audio gods have been good to you. First the Horizon and now the next iteration of the Extreme software.

Here’s the caveat in which I’m utterly shocked ………prior to the update I was listening in the 5~6 detente position and now between 3=4. In all the years I have had this preamp I have never played at such a low level yet I’m sitting here tapping my feet.

It’s difficult for me to wrap my head around this. It took Emile under 10 minutes via Team Viewer to change something in the bowels of the Extreme.

Ivs said many times that I listen at realistic levels and suddenly 4 becomes the new norm. Previously it was music low in gain but now at 4 I can’t get out of my seat.

 

[cat6man]

Great news and report Steve.

Are the SQ enhancements also there for locally stored music or is the improvement only seen with streaming?

 

[Steve Williams]

Great news and report Steve.

Are the SQ enhancements also there for locally stored music or is the improvement only seen with streaming?

That’s an excellent question. I don’t know as I’m sittimg here listening to streaming only. I’ve never heard streaming as good in my system

 

[oldmustang]

Here’s the caveat in which I’m utterly shocked ………prior to the update I was listening in the 5~6 detente position and now between 3=4. In all the years I have had this preamp I have never played at such a low level yet I’m sitting here tapping my feet.

It’s difficult for me to wrap my head around this. It took Emile under 10 minutes via Team Viewer to change something in the bowels of the Extreme.

Ivs said many times that I listen at realistic levels and suddenly 4 becomes the new norm. Previously it was music low in gain but now at 4 I can’t get out of my seat.

Thanks very much, Steve. Lots to look forward to. And don't worry about not being able to help Emile testing his new dCS drivers -- he installed some beta mods to my Extreme earlier today -- VERY nice uptick in sound quality, particularly with Roon (which I had pretty much abandoned in favor of TAS).

Reading your description it appears that a 75% OS install passes at least one of my two informal "volume tests". That is, can I play my music louder without the sound quality hardening or becoming too much in my face and prompting me to reach for the remote; and, can I play my music softer without losing vibrancy, dynamics, clarity and most importantly, emotional involvement? On the latter count at least it sounds as if Emile's modifications pass with flying colors.

Exciting times!

Steve Z