Taralabs grandmaster evolution: new top of the line cables from Taralabs
- Thread starter Audiocrack
- Start date
I was talking about gross margin of the manufacturer (i.e. revenue minus direct cost to build cars), which is the 15% / 18% I quoted. After they have taken out SG&A, interest, depreciation & and amortization there is very little (earnings before taxes) profit margin left (about 5% for volkswagen).
None of this is in any way related to dealer margins.
Not sure how a car manufacturer can have gross margin of 15%, operating margin of 5% yet have 25%+ profit margin in their invoice to the dealers....
"The Floating Ground Station doesn't change tone or timbre but makes everything clear and sharp: in a word, pristine."
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue38/tara_labs.htm
Interesting as I have been saying the same thing (ad nauseum,sorry guys), so if this kind of performance can be achieved for pennies on the dollar,then for 42K you get coloration? And yes Myles it does have a profound effect on the noise floor and spatiality. I know because I hear it every day in my system. Technology should bring lower costs,not stratospheric prices and that seems to be practiced by so few now. Also I am not against so called high end cables,after all I have spent about 15K on mine and that was before I became enlightened about EMI. Now,since I have a core cable bundle in place I get the same performance from quad double shield mic cable. Yes,I realise that this goes against tradional thinking,but everybody is coming out with noise or ground devices and they all experience the same characteristics. So what do you actually get for 42K? Seems like to me uneccessary or outdated technology.
p.s. In my system the tone and timbre did improve.
The acceptance of better quality of expensive goods is intrinsically associated to other factors, such as the brand being associated with producing high quality products since long, the product being usually used with high quality partnering equipment and the people selling it. If all these aspects deserve a positive appreciation, I am prepared to accept it is a good canditate for a position in the pojdium of the best.
???? Not sure I am getting any of your points
Nevertheless, let's leave some place to the discussion at hand ...
I love this thread. I really do. So many things that I enjoy being talked about.
I've seen what it takes to make a Patek Philippe and I must say, it is very impressive. Though, if I had that kind of money to spend, it would go to a car instead. Though not a Ferrari. I respect them. But for me, it's all McLaren. I can stare at my watch and think to myself how impressive it is. And I can try to impress a lady with it. No doubt I'll catch a gold digger for sure, once I tell her the price. But give me a McLaren and I won't just stare at it, I'll drive that beast into the ground. And I'll get laid 10 time more often. Different strokes, different folks. That's just where I'd go with it.
Between the McLaren and a stereo system that merit these cables? Yeah, still going with the McLaren. Let's be honest, if she's already at my house and sees my TaraLabs cables, it wasn't the cables that got her there. Again, Different strokes.
Even knowing what the margin is for TaraLabs, I still think the case can be made that it's a bargain, depending on how you compare it. *GASP* No, seriously.
And I don't doubt for a second that they are significantly better than previous TaraLabs cables. I'd expect that they certainly would be. Better than similar level of other brands? Well, that would be "system dependant", wouldn't it?
But I do have an issue with the way TaraLabs presents these cables. Reading their website, most of the description focuses on the gauge.
"The new Evolution speaker cable is a stunning achievement, boasting the greatest current-carrying capability of any speaker cable in the world"
"Importantly, the gauge size for each channel is far greater than any speaker cable ever made or ever conceived in history."
"The size ... hints at its incredible power."
Consider the REALITY of the situation. A 3 ought (000) ALUMINUM cable has an 200 amp current carrying capacity. This is, ostensibly, of a length greater than your typical speaker cable length. A COPPER 3 ought cable has a 400 amp capacity!! And that's just industrial copper. I'd imagine that an Oxygen Free, 8 Nines (OF8N) copper could do still better.
Here's the rub. If you've gone as far as having a dedicated run of electricity for your stereo, you most likely have 20 amp service now. 400 amp capacity being fed from a 20 amp service! And this is better, why?
Here's another rub. The wire inside the chassis of even some of the most expensive and highly regarded amplifiers out there is 18 gauge. Let's be generous and call it 12 gauge. And the wiring just inside your speaker (at the other end of the speaker cable) is most likely the same 18 gauge. But we'll be generous and call it 12 as well. No, lets do better. I'm sure there are a couple guys out there who probably have 10 gauge wire in their speakers and will try to discount my entire argument by focusing on that. So let's settle that right now. Let's assume that both your amplifier and your speaker have 4 gauge wire inside. That's 4 gauge wire bookending 3 ought wire!! And this is better, why?
If reality worked this way there would be no need for any community to have a Fire Department. We already have the infrastructure to accomplish the same thing! All we have to do take our garden hose (Ie. amplifier internal wiring) and connect to it a big fat 6 inch fire hose (Ie. 3 ought speaker cable) and we'll have enough water coming out of there to douse any flame!!
This is the kind of logic that makes audiophiles look like idiots.
Once again, I don't doubt for one second that these cables sound as described. And I'll even defend the price if I have to.
But the performance is NOT a function of the reasons given. So why claim that the cable is better because it's 3 ought? For no better reason than that's the easiest way to justify the price. It's a pissing contest, and TaraLabs has the biggest cock, by far.
I've seen what it takes to make a Patek Philippe and I must say, it is very impressive. Though, if I had that kind of money to spend, it would go to a car instead. Though not a Ferrari. I respect them. But for me, it's all McLaren. I can stare at my watch and think to myself how impressive it is. And I can try to impress a lady with it. No doubt I'll catch a gold digger for sure, once I tell her the price. But give me a McLaren and I won't just stare at it, I'll drive that beast into the ground. And I'll get laid 10 time more often. Different strokes, different folks. That's just where I'd go with it.
Between the McLaren and a stereo system that merit these cables? Yeah, still going with the McLaren. Let's be honest, if she's already at my house and sees my TaraLabs cables, it wasn't the cables that got her there. Again, Different strokes.
Even knowing what the margin is for TaraLabs, I still think the case can be made that it's a bargain, depending on how you compare it. *GASP* No, seriously.
And I don't doubt for a second that they are significantly better than previous TaraLabs cables. I'd expect that they certainly would be. Better than similar level of other brands? Well, that would be "system dependant", wouldn't it?
But I do have an issue with the way TaraLabs presents these cables. Reading their website, most of the description focuses on the gauge.
"The new Evolution speaker cable is a stunning achievement, boasting the greatest current-carrying capability of any speaker cable in the world"
"Importantly, the gauge size for each channel is far greater than any speaker cable ever made or ever conceived in history."
"The size ... hints at its incredible power."
Consider the REALITY of the situation. A 3 ought (000) ALUMINUM cable has an 200 amp current carrying capacity. This is, ostensibly, of a length greater than your typical speaker cable length. A COPPER 3 ought cable has a 400 amp capacity!! And that's just industrial copper. I'd imagine that an Oxygen Free, 8 Nines (OF8N) copper could do still better.
Here's the rub. If you've gone as far as having a dedicated run of electricity for your stereo, you most likely have 20 amp service now. 400 amp capacity being fed from a 20 amp service! And this is better, why?
Here's another rub. The wire inside the chassis of even some of the most expensive and highly regarded amplifiers out there is 18 gauge. Let's be generous and call it 12 gauge. And the wiring just inside your speaker (at the other end of the speaker cable) is most likely the same 18 gauge. But we'll be generous and call it 12 as well. No, lets do better. I'm sure there are a couple guys out there who probably have 10 gauge wire in their speakers and will try to discount my entire argument by focusing on that. So let's settle that right now. Let's assume that both your amplifier and your speaker have 4 gauge wire inside. That's 4 gauge wire bookending 3 ought wire!! And this is better, why?
If reality worked this way there would be no need for any community to have a Fire Department. We already have the infrastructure to accomplish the same thing! All we have to do take our garden hose (Ie. amplifier internal wiring) and connect to it a big fat 6 inch fire hose (Ie. 3 ought speaker cable) and we'll have enough water coming out of there to douse any flame!!
This is the kind of logic that makes audiophiles look like idiots.
Once again, I don't doubt for one second that these cables sound as described. And I'll even defend the price if I have to.
But the performance is NOT a function of the reasons given. So why claim that the cable is better because it's 3 ought? For no better reason than that's the easiest way to justify the price. It's a pissing contest, and TaraLabs has the biggest cock, by far.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
That was a great post. Very true IMO
As for the McLaren, I would go in a different direction. AS for watches the buzz on the street is that the best babe magnet watch is a Hublot. Women seeing those on men react differently or so I am told
As for the McLaren, I would go in a different direction.
Based on current offerings. I would go for the Porsche 918 Spyder over everything else out there.
I think something here needs to be addressed.
Besides promising designs and performance that shatters all previous barriers, and claiming
some sort of questionable unique technology, virtually no cable companies making products at the shocking
price points offer any technical information beside marketing slush. They offer no measurements, no specifications,
and no certification.
I have a close friend who has been selling the highest of high end cables to the government, the military, and corporations
for life and death, mission critical applications of all kinds, digital, analog, etc. While they are much more expensive than
any data or analog cable you will be from an office supply store, they are highly engineered, by actual engineers. Lives
literally depend on these cables, and the pricing is downright thrift shop compared to the high flyers in the audio cable world.
My friend must supply pages of specifications, test results, and certifications.
See below for a just a sales spec sheet for industrial grade Cat7 Ethernet Cable:
http://www.primuscable.com/Shared/images/32_SpecSheets/C7SS-116GY.pdf
A sales sheet for mil spec industrial hook up wire:
http://www.carlisleit.com/sites/default/files/resources/documents/CompositeWireCable.pdf
We now for sure, for example, that many of the "audiophile" grade USB cables that are so popular now do not
even meet basic USB specifications.
Besides promising designs and performance that shatters all previous barriers, and claiming
some sort of questionable unique technology, virtually no cable companies making products at the shocking
price points offer any technical information beside marketing slush. They offer no measurements, no specifications,
and no certification.
I have a close friend who has been selling the highest of high end cables to the government, the military, and corporations
for life and death, mission critical applications of all kinds, digital, analog, etc. While they are much more expensive than
any data or analog cable you will be from an office supply store, they are highly engineered, by actual engineers. Lives
literally depend on these cables, and the pricing is downright thrift shop compared to the high flyers in the audio cable world.
My friend must supply pages of specifications, test results, and certifications.
See below for a just a sales spec sheet for industrial grade Cat7 Ethernet Cable:
http://www.primuscable.com/Shared/images/32_SpecSheets/C7SS-116GY.pdf
A sales sheet for mil spec industrial hook up wire:
http://www.carlisleit.com/sites/default/files/resources/documents/CompositeWireCable.pdf
We now for sure, for example, that many of the "audiophile" grade USB cables that are so popular now do not
even meet basic USB specifications.
Just food for thought. Everyone here must realize the recordings made during the period most of us believe is the "golden" period...Blue Note,
Columbia, Vanguard, RCA Living Stereo, The Beatles, etc, the list goes forever...were all made with cables that any stereo magazine reading audiophile
today would **** on.
If you walked into Abbey Road or Rudy Van Gelder's studios and started talking about cryogenic treatment, exotic geometries, polished surfaces, etc you would have been rudely tossed out on your ass.
Columbia, Vanguard, RCA Living Stereo, The Beatles, etc, the list goes forever...were all made with cables that any stereo magazine reading audiophile
today would **** on.
If you walked into Abbey Road or Rudy Van Gelder's studios and started talking about cryogenic treatment, exotic geometries, polished surfaces, etc you would have been rudely tossed out on your ass.
This thread is making me want to go watch or car shopping.
Manny has great taste in cars
This thread is making me want to go watch or car shopping.
Yes Hublot big bang's are sexy...
To put this into perspective for the same money you can buy this......I know where my 42k is headed.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
To put this into perspective for the same money you can buy this......I know where my 42k is headed.
View attachment 16561
That's bad a$$ Roger
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
The problem is there are so many variations of The Big Bang that it would be difficult to pick one
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