The best sound I have heard was found at Jacob Heilbrunn's house.

[microstrip]

I am surprised you made that statement. (...)

Well, I am also surprised with your answer - you did not address my main points. BTW, to make it clear, by waiting time for upgrades I addressed the time we have to wait for having an upgrade carried to our own old units.

Also pretending that audiophiles who like to change gear are just "audiophile nervosa merry-go-round" type is ignoring part of this hobby and its roots in stereo sound reproduction. IMHO WBF and our discussions are just a proof of how different modes of enjoying it and preferences can coexist. If audiophiles focused just on the music WBF would never exist. At best it would be WBEG - What is the Best End Game and would end in a few weeks.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Seriously? Can nothing be improved once it is done? Do people change cars due to wear and tear? How about a new phone, house, etc. Have you heard of capitalism? If all your clients would only buy one of anything from you once, you would be out of business in no time.

This is a partially disingenuous reply. Please show us where Jonathan suggests that nothing can be improved once it is done.

I read Jonathan's post to explain darTZeel's long upgrade cycle philosophy, not its no upgrade ever cycle philosophy.

 

[HenryD]

This is a partially disingenuous reply. Please show us where Jonathan suggests that nothing can be improved once it is done.

I read Jonathan's post to explain darTZeel's long upgrade cycle philosophy, not its no upgrade ever cycle philosophy.

I read it as criticism of other manufacturers, those who dare to innovate and upgrade, while not putting their "best foot forward"

Many manufacturers come out with non-stop upgrades / model changes which, frankly speaking, annoys the hell out of me. There are only a few reasons this happens:

1. A manufacturer does not put their best foot forward or has rushed to market and needs to make changes.

For the record, I like darTZeel, and even owned the 108 years ago.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Seriously? Can nothing be improved once it is done? Do people change cars due to wear and tear? How about a new phone, house, etc. Have you heard of capitalism? If all your clients would only buy one of anything from you once, you would be out of business in no time.

Jonathan is doing quite well; maybe better than ever. for the record; Jonathan does put his money where is mouth is. he represents products and manufactures products, that have a long history of few new model turnovers, or updates, yet hold their value and performance place in the market over time. it's an important commitment to his customers for lasting value.

i wish he might be more diplomatic about it and tiptoe around the issue so it does not get anyone's panties in a bunch. and certainly there are other brands besides his that do that too. but mostly major brick and mortar products do not; product cycles are typically half of Jonathan's products. how important is this issue? to some it is important.

Jonathan was simply reacting to a negative comment about his product. and it specifically had to do with the manufacturer and distributor actions and choices. i wish he had ignored it, but i understand why he did not.

 

[thomask]

I was finally able to go to Jacob Heilbrunn's house and hear his sound system. It was breathtaking and even surpassed the WAMM installation at Dave Wilson's house.

As the photo will show, he had some exquisite gear, most notably an Air Force Zero with Graham and SAT tonearms and DS audio optical cartridge. Preamp and amp were Dartzeel which really impressed me. There was clearly something magical in the pairing of Wilson Audio WAMMs and the Dartzeel mono blocks. They are also the prettiest amplifiers I have seen. Digital which did not sound digital was the full Vivaldi stack.

Describing this fully in words is difficult but I think of two words, lifelike and effortless. Music just flowed so smoothly and naturally. Soundstage was deep and wide. You just could not locate where the speakers were if you closed your eyes.

A truly religious experience for me. It's valuable to hear how realistic the latest reference gear can be. Spooky good in many areas!

Perhaps even better was having a few hours to talk to Jacob. He is a very interesting and intelligent person. I am very glad we have him writing for The Absolute Sound.

No video?

Goebel must sounds nice and balanced from following video

 

[bazelio]

Well, I am also surprised with your answer - you did not address my main points. BTW, to make it clear, by waiting time for upgrades I addressed the time we have to wait for having an upgrade carried to our own old units.

About 6 weeks to upgrade my 108 Model 1 to a Model 2. Plus transit time to and from Europe/US. Hervé was also down with the virus during a portion of that time. So, I don't know about you, but I cannot find anything to complain about there.

 

[rad]

In fact we do not see a lot of Dart - although top quality and excellent sounding they are expensive and are a niche product. But our local distributor sells DartZeel and Wilson Audio and I can assure you that a significant number of his clients pair them.

My main issue with DartZeel is price - in an hobby driven by preference and our wallets things are more complicated than just saying it sounds sublime. Also the waiting time for upgrades - I am not a patient audiophile.

Not trying to stir a argument but, Wow! Dart a niche product? I don't agree with that at all, if Dart is niche so is everything else in your system, please explain more?

As far as price, let's face it , most of what we lust for is way overpriced in the audio world. Dart is basically in line with pricing with many other manufactures, imho.
I do not like overpaying, but it is what it is & if we want it we usually find a way. What drives these insane prices? I see 900K for a set of speakers? Really?

Last- I feel JT explained things very well coming from a distributer / manufactures standpoint.
I for one feel many manufactures just (feed the addiction) by coming out with new products every year! How many variations do they need of basically the same design! Improvements yes, that I understand.

 

[Kingrex]

I almost bought a.used 108 model 1 from Jonathan. I got worked up on trying a SET and went that way. I still think about a used 108. What bothers me is the 50 ohm BNC is such a superior connection in the Dartzeel line.
BNC Zeel 50 ohms, 1 Hz to 1 MHz
RCA line > 30 kohms, 5Hz to 100kHz
That is just such a large gap in bandwidth.
To me that means I have to commit totally to try it. Otherwise I'm not really hearing what it can do.

I did get to sit with Michael when I was rebuilding his electrical infrastructure. I heard his big Dartzeel driving the Estelon. I was pretty much in heaven. I could live with that system I said. And I still could. I'm not sure how it would fit in my tent. That is where I would be when my wife left me.

 

[bazelio]

Priorities.

But I don't see the zeel link as superior based on its bandwidth. 5 Hz to 100 kHz is overkill for the application already.

 

[Kingrex]

About 6 weeks to upgrade my 108 Model 1 to a Model 2. Plus transit time to and from Europe/US. Hervé was also down with the virus during a portion of that time. So, I don't know about you, but I cannot find anything to complain about there.

What did the upgrade do for you. I'm mulling a used model 1.

 

[bazelio]

What did the upgrade do for you. I'm mulling a used model 1.

Hi there. I started with a used Model 1 and ended up with a Model 2 a couple years later. Make sure your Model 1 is the latest revision with SCNP, if you go that route.

I had posted some thoughts on the Model 2 linked below. It's not a huge change at the macro level. Both the 1 and 2 have distinctive DarTZeel DNA. But over time as you start cycling through records, it becomes very clear what the Model 2 is doing differently.

As a side note, the Model 2 exposed what Hervé believes to be a grounding issue in my house that was never apparent before. We resolved it with a temporary fix that doesn't affect the performance of the amp, but I'd like to get your thoughts on the issue offline if you don't mind.

darTZeel NHB-108 Model 2 - The Best Stereo Amplifier In The World Just Got Way Better!

I should be visiting Hervé on the 24th to finally listen to this famous 108 model 2:p I still want to know if this amp could drive my Thiel CS 3.7 otherwise the CH M1 stereo might be more appropriate in terms of power. Wow, you are coming to Gva midweek? Zurich show is the weekend of Oct 27...

www.whatsbestforum.com

And

darTZeel NHB-108 Model 2 - The Best Stereo Amplifier In The World Just Got Way Better!

I’ve been listening to a 108 Model 2 for months now as my 468s are being built. I previously had an original 108 which I upgraded with SCNP, which clearly improved the amplifier. Next I got a pair of 458s, which clearly improved on the 108 w/SCNP. The Model 2 I’m listening to now definitely has...

www.whatsbestforum.com

 

[jeff1225]

I have a problem with the title of this thread and don't understand the intention of it. The best sound at the show is a cost is no object personal room that has been set up for years vs dealers who set up their systems in an unfamiliar and untreated hotel room? Is this supposed to be some great achievement?

 

[Lee]

Not mandatory, although usually a safe bet. But many people use big Wilson's with other cable brands - M. Fremer for example.

I find that Wilson speakers work well with Synergistic Research and Shunyata cables.

 

[Lee]

I have a problem with the title of this thread and don't understand the intention of it. The best sound at the show is a cost is no object personal room that has been set up for years vs dealers who set up their systems in an unfamiliar and untreated hotel room? Is this supposed to be some great achievement?

You are taking this a bit too seriously. I simply used the title to be funny/provocative and to suggest that Jacob's place is one of the great systems in the U.S.

 

[Lee]

No video?

Goebel must sounds nice and balanced from following video

The Gobel room was one of the best sounds at the show. The digital source components aggregated to approx. $275K.

The Parasound JC-1+ amps were the weak link but they sounded really good anyway. Hopefully we will see CH Precision Ten Series at the next show.

 

[Carlos269]

The Gobel room was one of the best sounds at the show. The digital source components aggregated to approx. $275K.

The Parasound JC-1+ amps were the weak link but they sounded really good anyway. Hopefully we will see CH Precision Ten Series at the next show.

What makes you think that the Parasound JC-1+ amps were the weakest link? Costs? Please elaborate as your inference says a lot about you and your publication. Curiously waiting on your educated insight?

 

[Elliot G.]

I have a problem with the title of this thread and don't understand the intention of it. The best sound at the show is a cost is no object personal room that has been set up for years vs dealers who set up their systems in an unfamiliar and untreated hotel room? Is this supposed to be some great achievement?

I could not agree more. I think it is really silly and totally disrespectful to all the people that worked their butts off to produce the show and to the hundreds of people that worked so hard to transport and set up all those rooms. The amount of effort is something most have no idea about. If Mr. Helibrunn had brought all that gear from his home and set it up at the show in one day now THAT would be impressive. Its no coincidence that that system has never been displayed at any show. VAC and VS have done their mega display at ALL the shows. Big difference!!!!
A 7 figure system in a custom designed room that took months and maybe years to design , build, install and set up with multiple people helping is not what happens at any show.
The title is silly and really disrespectful to Gary Gill and the dozens of others who went, worked and tried to show their gear.
I would be happy in a separate thread to discuss the exact process that we did. Just for kicks and giggles if anyone cares.
Thanks Jeffery T I though I was the only one.

 

[Elliot G.]

What makes you think that the Parasound JC-1+ amps were the weakest link? Costs? Please elaborate as your inference says a lot about you and your publication. Curiously waiting on your educated insight?

you are welcome to contact me if you want to know why and what since it was my room and my choices. I spent the whole show there not 5 minutes.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I could not agree more. I think it is really silly and totally disrespectful to all the people that worked their butts off to produce the show and to the hundreds of people that worked so hard to transport and set up all those rooms. The amount of effort is something most have no idea about. If Mr. Helibrunn had brought all that gear from his home and set it up at the show in one day now THAT would be impressive. Its no coincidence that that system has never been displayed at any show. VAC and VS have done their mega display at ALL the shows. Big difference!!!!
A 7 figure system in a custom designed room that took months and maybe years to design , build, install and set up with multiple people helping is not what happens at any show.
The title is silly and really disrespectful to Gary Gill and the dozens of others who went, worked and tried to show their gear.
I would be happy in a separate thread to discuss the exact process that we did. Just for kicks and giggles if anyone cares.
Thanks Jeffery T I though I was the only one.

You definitively have a point there .

 

[microstrip]

WBF thread tittles are many times of such poor taste, disrespectful or even insulting that unfortunately at some point they manage to kill the whole thread.

I am sure it was not Lee intention, but probably with his consent the moderators could change it for something less provocative - OPs can't change it - and we could follow on.