The Case for High End Audio

[tima]

I presume all members of industry who are participating here are receiving some benefit. So do the hobbyists, but they are not selling anything or asked to pay to participate. We see when manufacturers discuss their products and dealers discuss the products they sell. Those perspectives are revealing and informative.

There are a lot of dealers here and often they distribute something as well. Most work to keep their products in a positive light, and the opportunity to do this in any thread is a benefit that they pay to have. I have no problem with that as long as they self-disclose. Manufacturers who describe their products and the basis of their designs -- granted proprietary information limitations -- can be very insightful.

 

[Lee]

I presume all members of industry who are participating here are receiving some benefit. So do the hobbyists, but they are not selling anything or asked to pay to participate. We see when manufacturers discuss their products and dealers discuss the products they sell. Those perspectives are revealing and informative.

The highest value this forum can add is if people share honest opinions about what they hear. That way we learn what is the best and what are the best practices to get the best sound possible.

 

[Lee]

There are a lot of dealers here and often they distribute something as well. Most work to keep their products in a positive light, and the opportunity to do this in any thread is a benefit that they pay to have. I have no problem with that as long as they self-disclose. Manufacturers who describe their products and the basis of their designs -- granted proprietary information limitations -- can be very insightful.

To that end, a better path forward might have been for Javier to join and talk about the technology in the Wadax and what he feels the technical advantages are. I have asked in the past for more detail on this but have yet to receive anything.

We reviewers are trying to be fair to everyone and are just trying to understand how certain technologies relate to the good sound we hear.

Beyond technical points, it might also be the case that people like certain flavors of sound.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

To that end, a better path forward might have been for Javier to join and talk about the technology in the Wadax and what he feels the technical advantages are. I have asked in the past for more detail on this but have yet to receive anything.

We reviewers are trying to be fair to everyone and are just trying to understand how certain technologies relate to the good sound we hear.

Beyond technical points, it might also be the case that people like certain flavors of sound.

does Mr. dCS come and explain the ring dac or whatever secrets are in the Varese?

to me the why and how is never the issue to actual buyers, only the what.

it's the great unwashed that desire chapter and verse about the why and how so they can pretend they know better or find flaws in the tech. but they never buy anything in that value range. they eye appraised it based on the price already and their minds are closed. so i think staying away is the right play. let the dealers deal direct with flesh and blood customers. i can tell you that for me personally as a consumer of very spendy digital, i never got caught up in the technology other than to respond properly as best i could to questions, not for myself to be convinced of anything. not my deal. i listen.

the explanations as far as they go make sense, but i only understand on a surface level, not with any true depth, and i have no desire to dig deeper. i'd rather enjoy the listening.

 

[Lee]

does Mr. dCS come and explain the ring dac or whatever secrets are in the Varese?

to me the why and how is never the issue to actual buyers, only the what.

it's the great unwashed that desire chapter and verse about the why and how so they can pretend they know better or find flaws in the tech. but they never buy anything in that value range. so i think staying away is the right play. let the dealers deal direct with customers. i can tell you that for me personally as a consumer of very spendy digital, i never got caught up in the technology other than to respond properly as best i could to questions, not for myself to be convinced of anything. not my deal. i listen.

the explanations as far as they go make sense, but i only understand on a surface level, not with any true depth, and i have no desire to dig deeper. i'd rather enjoy the listening.

Yes, David is interviewed in my review and he connects some of the technology to the sound we are hearing. My job as a reviewer is to gain some level of understanding and explain that to the reader so they can make more informed buying decisions. Some buyers will have an interest in the technology and some will not. It makes for a better read as well. We noticed at TAS that many readers responded to the sidebars on technology that Harley and others do so well.

 

[Lee]

Here is the just released Hifi News review which is very similar in findings to my review:

https://dcs.community/uploads/short-url/hbe4P3RsEb5Wr0zrKStmmY9ZTk6.pdf

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Here is the just released Hifi News review which is very similar in findings to my review:

https://dcs.community/uploads/short-url/hbe4P3RsEb5Wr0zrKStmmY9ZTk6.pdf

is he coming here to interact? interviews attached to reviews are not the same as dealing with all our 'experts'.

you are the one wondering about Javier....who has done plenty of interviews and videos. big whup. those are PR fluff pieces. rehashing of market-speak stuff.

 

[PYP]

Manufacturers who describe their products and the basis of their designs -- granted proprietary information limitations -- can be very insightful.

Even if one cannot understand all the technology, this kind of description is very interesting and reveals the artist behind the work. Here is a good example: https://www.grimmaudio.com/blogs/designing-the-pw1-phono-preamplifier/

There are also YouTube interviews with Eelco Grimm and Guido Tent that are revealing and interesting. I had purchased Grimm gear prior to watching these videos, but it added to the pleasure of owning a cleverly designed piece of gear that is a pleasure to listen to. Grimm Audio seems like a skunkworks, but they are the entire organization, not a separate location for innovation.

I like to think of my main gear as pieces of art. Not in the sense of investment/cost, but something ingeniously designed and attractively presented that provides rewards over the long term.

 

[tima]

Even if one cannot understand all the technology, this kind of description is very interesting and reveals the artist behind the work. Here is a good example: https://www.grimmaudio.com/blogs/designing-the-pw1-phono-preamplifier/

There are also YouTube interviews with Eelco Grimm and Guido Tent that are revealing and interesting. I had purchased Grimm gear prior to watching these videos, but it added to the pleasure of owning a cleverly designed piece of gear that is a pleasure to listen to. Grimm Audio seems like a skunkworks, but they are the entire organization, not a separate location for innovation.

I like to think of my main gear as pieces of art. Not in the sense of investment/cost, but something ingeniously designed and attractively presented that provides rewards over the long term.

When I work on a review, it is always enjoyable to interact with the designer/manufacturer. And most so when they are willing to talk about the why and what of their design. Some are quite loquacious and like to talk with someone who is interested in their work. A handful believe the end-user is not interested in the technology.

 

[PYP]

When I work on a review, it is always enjoyable to interact with the designer/manufacturer. And most so when they are willing to talk about the why and what of their design. Some are quite loquacious and like to talk with someone who is interested in their work. A handful believe the end-user is not interested in the technology.

that must be fun. What a great reward.

I greatly enjoyed this encapsulation from the designer of Grimm Audio's phono preamp:

"So what is so difficult about a phono preamp?

Well, for starters, the phono signals coming from your MM or MC cartridge are very tiny. Most MM cartridges output a nominal 5 mV, but that is for music of average loudness. And at 1 kHz. But at 20 Hz the cartridge’s output is ten times smaller: 0.5 mV which equals 500 µV (microvolt, one millionth of a Volt). For comparisons, most loudspeakers work with up to 30 Volt. But we’re not there yet. Music is not always loud, in very quiet passages it can be 60 dB softer. 60 dB is 1000 times, so now we’re talking 5 µV and 500 nV (nano = one billionth) at 1 kHz and 20 Hz respectively."

 

[tima]

to me the why and how is never the issue to actual buyers, only the what.

it's the great unwashed that desire chapter and verse about the why and how so they can pretend they know better or find flaws in the tech. but they never buy anything in that value range. they eye appraised it based on the price already and their minds are closed. so i think staying away is the right play. let the dealers deal direct with flesh and blood customers. i can tell you that for me personally as a consumer of very spendy digital, i never got caught up in the technology other than to respond properly as best i could to questions, not for myself to be convinced of anything. not my deal. i listen.

Buyers or not, this forum seems to belie that. I suspect for those stretching their budget or buying for the long term they are more likely to enjoy knowing all they can about a piece of gear. Maybe they are not pretending and are truly interested. Perhaps for those with a high turnover rate it's just another conversation piece -- the what.