The [coffee snobs'] espresso thread

ack

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
May 6, 2010
6,306
769
610
Boston, MA
Impressive!
 

DaveC

Industry Expert
Nov 16, 2014
3,260
1,181
390
Ugh...I know. The very same could be said about audio...one hobby is plenty! Though at least it is one I enjoy while working...and I suppose I could say the same about caffeine! ;)

What single [simple to use] coffee grinder would you say is the equivalent of the Sennheiser HD650, Maggie 0.7 or the Krell KSA 50 of old?

Mazzer Mini would be a standard that's been around for years, Niche Zero is a new product that looks promising...
 
  • Like
Reactions: the sound of Tao

the sound of Tao

Well-Known Member
Jul 18, 2014
2,285
2,066
470
Mazzer Mini would be a standard that's been around for years, Niche Zero is a new product that looks promising...
Plus one... I’ve got a mate who has both a Niche zero and a Mazzer Kony and prefers the big mazzer but both are great. I have had a Mazzer mini for twenty years... upgraded to a Mazzer mini electronic B this year... an ideal machine for me who makes three or four coffees most days. Looks great and doesn’t take up too much space on the benchtop and conical burrs with stepless grinding is the go. Very happy with the mini Mazzer Luigi.
20618DC1-1C8B-4406-BA40-C459BB2CBCF7.jpeg
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: DaveC and ack

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
15,284
4,695
940
London

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
15,284
4,695
940
London
Quit the racist remarks!:D:)

Well I can't stand milk in my coffee, and that takes away all the flavor. That's like having milk with wine, champagne, or beer, whatever your thing is
 

User211

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2014
2,316
666
358
I'm the reverse. But the milk quality has to be very high. Definitely not homogenised. Always full cream, preferably Jersey.
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
15,284
4,695
940
London
Wasabi and soy sauce with sushi is as bad as milk in coffee
 

DaveC

Industry Expert
Nov 16, 2014
3,260
1,181
390
Plus one... I’ve got a mate who has both a Niche zero and a Mazzer Kony and prefers the big mazzer but both are great. I have had a Mazzer mini for twenty years... upgraded to a Mazzer mini electronic B this year... an ideal machine for me who makes three or four coffees most days. Looks great and doesn’t take up too much space on the benchtop and conical burrs with stepless grinding is the go. Very happy with the mini Mazzer Luigi.
View attachment 69843

Nice!

The mini is a flat-burr machine, but imo that's a better choice for lighter roasts and for grinds other than espresso. Flat burrs produce a more even particle size distribution, and in fact that's a lot of what you're paying for with the high end Kafetek flat-burr grinders.

Conical is better for traditional espresso as the particle size varies more, specifically it produces more fines which add to the flavor profile and crema, but some of the big conical machines are really not designed to handle the much harder beans of many single origins or lighter roasts, they are really specialty espresso grinders designed for espresso roasts.

The conical burrs also make for a more blended taste profile, it's smoother, often texture is creamier, and with espresso blends you can get both great sweetness with some more bitters and roasty flavors to balance it out. Flat burrs will make the notes more well defined, but can also be a little edgier and not quite as smooth. It's better for accentuating the unique flavors of high end single origin beans, but can make for a less complex and less smooth traditional espresso. Flat burrs can maximize sweetness though, as there are less fines to add more bitter notes and less solid particles get through into the crema.
 

the sound of Tao

Well-Known Member
Jul 18, 2014
2,285
2,066
470
Nice!

The mini is a flat-burr machine, but imo that's a better choice for lighter roasts and for grinds other than espresso. Flat burrs produce a more even particle size distribution, and in fact that's a lot of what you're paying for with the high end Kafetek flat-burr grinders.

Conical is better for traditional espresso as the particle size varies more, specifically it produces more fines which add to the flavor profile and crema, but some of the big conical machines are really not designed to handle the much harder beans of many single origins or lighter roasts, they are really specialty espresso grinders designed for espresso roasts.

The conical burrs also make for a more blended taste profile, it's smoother, often texture is creamier, and with espresso blends you can get both great sweetness with some more bitters and roasty flavors to balance it out. Flat burrs will make the notes more well defined, but can also be a little edgier and not quite as smooth. It's better for accentuating the unique flavors of high end single origin beans, but can make for a less complex and less smooth traditional espresso. Flat burrs can maximize sweetness though, as there are less fines to add more bitter notes and less solid particles get through into the crema.
Whoops meant flat... wrote it before my coffee and should have waited till the caffeine activated my brain matter :eek: lol great read thanks Dave. The rituals of espresso suit the audiophile mind and the drive to get some measure of perfect. The whole thing, the setup, the process, the gear, the accessories and the tweaking is very much in line with the same drives in an audio system. These days I’d struggle without having a sufficient level in each.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DaveC

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
11,693
576
658
Mazzer Mini would be a standard that's been around for years, Niche Zero is a new product that looks promising...

Thank you. I suppose when I was looking for a burr grinder (which we might use 2-10x per year) since the Jura has its own adjustable burr grinders inside...it was only to grind decaf for the few times a year we might have some. In which case, I was asking for the Sennheiser HD650, Maggie 0.7 equivalent...which I do not sense equates to a £799 grinder. Of course, in the high end world, perhaps USD$1100 for a grinder IS the Maggie 0.7 equivalent, but it seems to me more like the Sonus Faber Guarneri.

I am actually thinking manual burr grinder that does a good job in quality grinding...for a lot less...I was thinking Hario?
 

DaveC

Industry Expert
Nov 16, 2014
3,260
1,181
390
Thank you. I suppose when I was looking for a burr grinder (which we might use 2-10x per year) since the Jura has its own adjustable burr grinders inside...it was only to grind decaf for the few times a year we might have some. In which case, I was asking for the Sennheiser HD650, Maggie 0.7 equivalent...which I do not sense equates to a £799 grinder. Of course, in the high end world, perhaps USD$1100 for a grinder IS the Maggie 0.7 equivalent, but it seems to me more like the Sonus Faber Guarneri.

I am actually thinking manual burr grinder that does a good job in quality grinding...for a lot less...I was thinking Hario?

If that's the case, sure a manual would do great. I was thinking you might also use it for other stuff, personally I single dose so I can change beans from cup to cup.

Mazzer Mini retails for $695 USD here. I actually have a Compak K3, it's maybe $100 less vs the Mini, otherwise very similar but the K3 came w/o doser, which I don't want anyways.
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
11,693
576
658
If that's the case, sure a manual would do great. I was thinking you might also use it for other stuff, personally I single dose so I can change beans from cup to cup.

Mazzer Mini retails for $695 USD here. I actually have a Compak K3, it's maybe $100 less vs the Mini, otherwise very similar but the K3 came w/o doser, which I don't want anyways.
Thank you. Like many things, when stepping into a new 'adventure hobby'...the steps usually start small and grow. First it was just any old caffeine...instant...Nespresso...now Jura...and only whole bean coffees ground only when about to drink...now a grinder. I can candidly say this does not seem like something we are going to get into seriously. It is 99% because the Nespresso broke, we did the math and realized 40 cents a Nespresso capsule pays for a simple Jura in 12 months even if we buy gourmet whole bean coffee (which costs between 3 cents and 10 cents a cup particularly if bought on sale). Done. And the grinder is simply for whole bean decaf when we want to drink 1-2 cups (a couple times a year).

But that being said, we are on WBF...so at least you want to get respectable results and it sounds like the purists would say a good manual grinder is a very good result for not much cost.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DaveC

Fred Crane

New Member
Apr 23, 2020
2
2
3
54
I'm very interested to try the new Yemeni coffee that was auctioned off. Supposed to be one of the best cups in the world.
Square Mile bought a share as did George Howell in the US. Prices for raw coffee went over $100 a pound in some cases, (i believe there were 18 lots or so ranging from about 130lbs to 2k pounds) Delivery might see us getting the first samples around the holidays.
 

ack

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
May 6, 2010
6,306
769
610
Boston, MA
Ooooo, George Howell, will have to run to his store nearby today! Thanks
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
15,284
4,695
940
London
Thank you. I suppose when I was looking for a burr grinder (which we might use 2-10x per year) since the Jura has its own adjustable burr grinders inside...it was only to grind decaf for the few times a year we might have some. In which case, I was asking for the Sennheiser HD650, Maggie 0.7 equivalent...which I do not sense equates to a £799 grinder. Of course, in the high end world, perhaps USD$1100 for a grinder IS the Maggie 0.7 equivalent, but it seems to me more like the Sonus Faber Guarneri.

I am actually thinking manual burr grinder that does a good job in quality grinding...for a lot less...I was thinking Hario?

Lloyd... Amorett at Notting hill (and you can order online) has a brilliant Columbia. It's the most expensive of their lot. I didn't like their others except Brazil, which was on par but different from the Pantano Brazil at extract. But this Columbia is excellent

They make a good Ethiopian there but when I do by the same method at home it doesn't taste as good.
 
Last edited:

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
11,693
576
658
Lloyd... Amorett at Notting hill (and you can order online) has a brilliant Columbia. It's the most expensive of their lot. I didn't like their others except Brazil, which was on par but different from the Pantano Brazil at extract. But this Columbia is gastric excellent

They make a good Ethiopian there but when I do by the same method at home it doesn't taste as good.
Great! Thanks for letting us know...will check it out.
 

User211

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2014
2,316
666
358
Wogan Tarrazu and Gold Top milk.

Fantastic taste.

Is it only us Brits that know what Gold Top is?


IMG_20201022_174825.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: ack

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. A place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss existing and new audio products, music servers, music streamers and computer audio, digital to audio convertors (DACS), turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel to reel, speakers, headphones, tube amplifiers and solid state amplification. Founded in 2010 What's Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing