The Heretic 1- a non believers take on Turntable building

Jhellow

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2011
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Hi Jhellow

Most significantly we use a different control system for the TA's position, which will greatly improve tracking accuracy- and it should by any given progress in technology-but we add some "special sauce" which should give the current competition a run for their money;):cool:

Because of the short TA, the "bridge" that holds the TA completely straddles the record during play and moves motorized along tracks backward to enable changing the record- handy!

BTW a Rabco SL 8 arm, which I believe is similar (?) quotes a 1/6 of a degree tracking angle deviation. at an estimated 20 cm (8") length this translates to a 0.058 mm or 58 micron control span- impressive! (total +and -)

Best,

Carl

If adjusted properly, a T3F should not be off from perfectly tangent for more than half a groove. My Goldmund is a bit different from standard. I worked with DJ Kasser from Black Diamond Racing, a great guy who recently passed, to fabricate a carbon fiber plinth and chassis, Newport Corporation for a fully active pneumatic suspension, and a power supply company from England for a linear PS for the Pabst motor. We did this for an article I wrote for The Audiophile Voice in the 90s on turntable design. I encourage you to check out Newport’s suspension products for your design. Their pneumatic feet rival Vibraplane for isolation and provide perfect self leveling while the tangent arm traverses the record. They are really sweat, and can be run off a pressurized air tank. No loud pump required!
 
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Noob Technology

Industry Expert
Good morning

our numbers align almost perfectly: @200 GPI the groove width (Incl the land) is 0,127 mm, or 127 microns, half of that is 63

will check out the Newport Corp connection- thx for the heads up!
the plinths of the Heretic are magnetically suspended

can you please share your article or source?

thx&best,

Carl
 
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Vienna

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Oct 14, 2018
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interesting project, i am wishing you a massive success.
i have some questions:
Controlling precisely one motor is a challenging task, controlling four it’s way more challenging.
what kind of motors do you use? Are they frequency or voltage controlled?
what material will you use for the thrust pad and bearing? How are you dealing with the lubrication?
 
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Noob Technology

Industry Expert
Hi there
thx for the positive vibe!

the 4 motors are controlled by 1 controller (driver) so there can be no signal differences
The motor used are steppermotors. Basically a stepper motor has 200 steps per revolution.- so if you give it 200 pulses, it will rotate 1x
by controlling the nr of pulses, the RPM’s are set

dividing a revolution by only 200 steps is hardly consistent, one would need huge masses to iron out the fluctuations, defeating the concept
so each step is subdivided in a lot of much smaller steps- compare with the sampling rate of a CD. In this way there are thousands of small steps per rev
the motors run at platter speed, 33 rpm

this is an interesting article : https://www.geckodrive.com/support/step-motor-basics/motor-theory.html

The axial bearing is magnetic, the radials are currently under time testing cycles-we’ll see what comes out tops
The bearings are self lubricating, we provide for a tube from the rear of the plinth to the bearing innards to directly apply additional lubrication periodically.

best

Carl
 
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Noob Technology

Industry Expert
Hi Kach22i

happy to hear that!
will make a note to put you on our newsletter distribution

we are particularly chuffed on the controls of the TA. Now in trials, will outperform a Dereneville arm handsomely. By much more than a few microns..........:cool::oops:

best and be safe!

Carl
 
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Derainer

Industry Expert, VIP Donor
Apr 23, 2011
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Lippstadt Germany
www.dereneville.de
we are particularly chuffed on the controls of the TA. Now in trials, will outperform a Dereneville arm handsomely. By much more than a few microns.
@ Carl

Innovations can almost always be described as positive.
Start-ups are also often known for innovations.
So one can basically see start-ups in a positive light.
We too started as a start-up and celebrated our successes
and do it still today.

What I personally find very unfortunate and also presumptuous
is the claim to be better than the Dereneville linear tracker.
Especially if no comparisons have been made at all.

I bet you have never seen the Dereneville in detail, let alone heard it personally.

I think it would be better not to throw the ball too high or too far,
you could easily lose him. Such behaviour does not improve the image.
 
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Lagonda

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Feb 4, 2014
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@ Carl

Innovations can almost always be described as positive.
Start-ups are also often known for innovations.
So one can basically see start-ups in a positive light.
We too started as a start-up and celebrated our successes
and do it still today.

What I personally find very unfortunate and also presumptuous
is the claim to be better than the Dereneville linear tracker.
Especially if no comparisons have been made at all.

I bet you have never seen the Dereneville in detail, let alone heard it personally.

I think it would be better not to throw the ball too high or too far,
you could easily lose him. Such behaviour does not improve the image.
What image Rainer ? Drawings and a video of a 30 year old shitty sounding DD TT is not something that makes a image. At best a premature launch thread, at worst a figment of imagination ;)
 
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Noob Technology

Industry Expert
Hello Rainer welcome to the thread.

Thank you for your advice
We mentioned only the control, we did not imply any audio related aspect....
We don’t apologize for our claims -we are Noobs after all—:D:D

First of all, we want to acknowledge your achievement and applaud it! A testament to Deutsche Grundlichkeit and engineering.
You have set a benchmark indeed.
With that comes a target and a challenge!

When we considered this challenge we first analyzed the current offerings of active TA’s. We are not interested in an incremental change- increasing sensor resolution by a few microns or so. There has to be something meaningful.

We concluded that all active TA’s have a fundamental flaw: the Arm is moved by the control system without knowing what the needle at the record level is actually doing. The (partial) decoupling of the cartridge’ s pivot allows movement of the needle/cantilever independent of the arm. Hmmmm

When the Cantilever is not perfectly aligned, the Needle cannot be perfectly aligned in the groove either- and thus by definition the performance is compromised.

So we know there is room for improvement here. We went shopping at Igus and Trinamic too and designed and build a TA control system that addresses this issue.

Best,

Carl

PS: we spoke- briefly- a couple of years ago by phone.
I have relatives in the Paderborn area, maybe we share a coffee sometime.
 
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Vienna

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Carl, I am enjoying your theories and your citations to various papers but still we haven’t seen a single photo of your project.
However you do not hesitate to grade your theoretic project over real projects like Derenville.

I am trying to figure out the sort of marketing strategy you have chosen but it seems that it might be on the wrong direction.
 

Lagonda

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Feb 4, 2014
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Carl, I am enjoying your theories and your citations to various papers but still we haven’t seen a single photo of your project.
However you do not hesitate to grade your theoretic project over real projects like Derenville.

I am trying to figure out the sort of marketing strategy you have chosen but it seems that it might be on the wrong direction.
Yes Savvas, if i was trying to gain interest for a new product ready for launch December 1, i would definitely post videos of the prototype doing the Nakamichi style centering, and the LT arm in action. Not link to papers written about the Rockport Sirius 3 turntable and old Nakamichi advertising ;)
 

thedudeabides

Well-Known Member
Jan 16, 2011
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Carl, I am enjoying your theories and your citations to various papers but still we haven’t seen a single photo of your project.
However you do not hesitate to grade your theoretic project over real projects like Derenville.

I am trying to figure out the sort of marketing strategy you have chosen but it seems that it might be on the wrong direction.
Agreed. Maybe it doesn't exist.
 

Lagonda

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Feb 4, 2014
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Waiting for the big release yesterday ! ;)
 

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