Looks like there will be investigation into all diesel cars. One has to believe that all of their competitors knew about it and likely one of them turned them in. Wonder how many dared to copy them seeing how they were getting away with it???
The Volkswagen debacle
- Thread starter DaveyF
- Start date
You are being too emotional - until we have all the details and numbers the question concerning Volkswagen in mainly a tax and fraud question. And a warning - societies should create control mechanisms that prevent such situations.
The exposure of this situation was triggered an alarm - it seems now that since a few years ago many people using other diesel cars have been doing similar modifications in their cars at workshops, reducing fuel consumption at the expense of higher emission of pollutants.
Bob, don't get me wrong, I agree with you that the crimes are in many instances very heinous. I do believe that long jail times and other punitive aspects are warranted. However,
I would not go so far as to suggest the death penalty.
Micro, talking about individual owners who defeat the emissions systems on their own vehicles is a case by case basis. The consequences are set forth already under the law.
Not the same thing at all as a huge conglomerate 'cheating' the system and society on a mass basis, IMO. Incredibly, the true consequence to the individual ( little guy) is FAR more
severe and punitive than to the corporate offender!
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Alex, I agree with you.
Problem is for the poor consumer, the fix will likely involve some kind of a kludge that will address the pollution/emissions from the car. Said 'fix' will most likely demise the car from a performance stand point...either the gas mileage or the drivability, or perhaps both. Thereby, depriving the poor consumer of what he/she was originally sold on and what they eseentially paid/bargained for. This is where I believe the true damage to the consumer lies. That along with the fact that they most likely will suffer a significant loss in value for the vehicle, due to the stigma now attached to it. Like you said, the class action suit will make several lawyers very rich(er)...the poor guy in the streets...well he should have known better than buy a VW in the first place!!
Now there is an idea. We take their responsible employees and stick them in a chamber to breath the fumes for a few days.
That's exactly what I'm talkin' 'bout.
And put it on the first page of the internet news...so that everyone can read about it and witness the penalty directly on youtube.
Good morning Francisco, :b
I simply reacted according to my source of information...here @ WBF first...and then Google.
It is impossible to measure the emotional level of another human being; no machines have been invented yet to calculate all those complex human equations.
What we read on Facebook, Twitter, WBF, ...is impossible to decipher @ 100% @ all times. ....Simply impossible.
So the best approach is to love others as much as we love ourselves, then all human beings are emotionally equal...sort of speech. :b
Anyway, bad malpractice those Volkswagen folks what they did...very bad...even in the name of Money.
There are human values that are way above real life. IMHO
We're all responsible for our planet well functioning and balancing and equilibrium on all economic, social, spiritual, humanitarian, ...aspects.
"Exposure" ...yes, the first step...then a concrete follow up to condemn the bad deeds, and finally to improve the planet's health with all its inhabitants living on it from its four corners.
Emotional...yes, I have to, because if I wouldn't I'd miss the boat of what it truly is to be from planet Earth. ...No? :b
Before everything we love the most; our families, children, jobs, homes, audio rigs...there was life...a garden. ...We all lose that important primary perspective...I think.
It's good to be emotional, to react, interact, act. ...To share how deeply we feel about real human facts with our families, friends.
Without emotions we are just drops of water falling from the heights of the world and crashing down @ the surface's bottom...like in Mad Max when they turn the water on from those three big pipes, above the Citadel.
Life is water, and without it people drink oil and gas...from Gastown. ...And slowly we all die. ...It's good to be emotional...a little...not too much...just the right amount to change things for the better. ...That's my view, how I see it...with total control of all my emotions. ...With solid foundation in and out.
One hundred years ago we did not have the internet; it was much easier to hide crimes and injustices. ...Today we have no reason to keep @ it like they did yesterday.
Emotions have their right of place; they are important for our planet's advancement and the human race. :b
Davey, the death penalty that I was referring to only applies to Mr. Peanut (and his direct accomplices). ...That's from that prior article that I reacted this way.
...The car people (Volkswagen)...yes, stiff jail sentences, I agree.
And it's the same with General Motors when they release cars and trucks that they know are defective and can kill their customers. ...Any car company in the world.
In the future, owners of the now worthless diesel Volkswagens will have a makeshift patch installed by their dealership. Along with this repair they will receive a free cup of coffee and a personable slap on the back, to reassure them that the Volkswagen corporation appreciates their business. Who could ask for more?
VW will likely have to buy back the 2.0 l tdi cars. The only other soulution is class action damages that would amount to a similar value as the cars will be difficult to sell. Perhaps a trade in at full purchase price as an option on a new gasoline or electric vw.
I agree with the sentiment that VW, and the car industry in general are 'Too big to fail'. If the entire industry is shown to be flouting these regulations (with a nod and a wink from the officials who don't really care about air quality, only box ticking), then tightening up on the regulations would bring the whole economy grinding to a halt: half the cars on the road would have to be scrapped or heavily modified. This will not be allowed to happen. There will be slapped wrists, symbolic fines, a few token recalls of easily-modifiable models, and a line in the sand drawn whereby all new cars must be shown to have no defeat mechanisms.
Edit: I once worked in the motor racing industry, and the ECU code had to be submitted to the relevant authorities to be checked to ensure no cheating e.g. illegal launch control and so on. You might have thought that road vehicles would have been subject to the same thing. Evidently not. In a way this is related to discussions about audio measurements: you can never be sure that your measurements of a black box have completely characterised it. But if you look inside the black box at the design then you have a far better idea of what it is doing.
Edit: I once worked in the motor racing industry, and the ECU code had to be submitted to the relevant authorities to be checked to ensure no cheating e.g. illegal launch control and so on. You might have thought that road vehicles would have been subject to the same thing. Evidently not. In a way this is related to discussions about audio measurements: you can never be sure that your measurements of a black box have completely characterised it. But if you look inside the black box at the design then you have a far better idea of what it is doing.
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This will never happen, the corporate lawyers working on Volkswagen behalf will negotiate something far less punitive. The ones who will lose the most are the owners of these automobiles.
Just some points of consideration :
The US didnt sign the Kyoto pollution treaty .
The US has very low fuel prices , thus making it easy for the big motor sales big 5 liter V 8 s whatever , a lot off pollution .
I assume it could be a competition game as well , pushing volkswagen diesels out of the us market, the VW s are very sophisticated motors after all and efficient
The US didnt sign the Kyoto pollution treaty .
The US has very low fuel prices , thus making it easy for the big motor sales big 5 liter V 8 s whatever , a lot off pollution .
I assume it could be a competition game as well , pushing volkswagen diesels out of the us market, the VW s are very sophisticated motors after all and efficient
Canon released a faulty $3000 professional camera a few years ago. I was an owner of one. They recalled the cameras twice and yet, no one trusted the fixes. The result was much degraded resale value. All they did to compensate was to give an extra year of warranty. I suspect that is what VW will attempt to do.
It doesnt mean VW produced a bad car /motor , compared to most american motordesigns its probably still much more efficient/pollution friendly
seriously?
of course VW produced a bad motor. it could not hit the claimed mileage while it also kept the required emissions.
maybe we can argue the meaning of 'bad'. i'd say this situation is the definition of 'bad' for VW.
and it's real world performance resulted in 40 times higher emissions than the standard. show us an American designed motor that is doing anything like that.
your Euro ego has run amuck.
how can you not see that?
and i'm not in love with American motors; I sell Hondas.
Umm, doubt it. Internal combustion engines are a pretty mature technology.
It is interesting how VW is the only one to figure out how to make their diesels pass emissions in the USA while Honda, Subaru, Chevy, Ford, etc. could not. Now we know why... I wonder how significant the extra pollution produced by all these VW TDI vehicles is in the USA?
News today that 2.1m Audi cars using the same defeat technology. EU5 engines but newer EU6 engines are not said to be affected.13,000 in the US said to be affected. Vehicles lines involved include A1,A3,A4.A5.A6 and the TT,Q3 and Q5 models
It's interesting to reflect that this goes back about 40 years, President de Gaulle slashed the duty on diesel fuel in France to protect the French car industry from Japanese competition. The Japanese had no diesel cars at that time and the French industry was the world leader in diesel cars.
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