This Corona Virus Mania is Just Too Much, We All Need to Chill!

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My definition of conspiracy is a common scheme or plan carried out by two or more individuals acting in concert .
 
My definition of conspiracy is a common scheme or plan carried out by two or more individuals acting in concert .

Creating a personalized, custom definition of a word does not, I think, advance our common understanding of the meaning of that word. Your definition fails to include the element of a criminal or harmful act in furtherance of the common plan.
 
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My definition of conspiracy is a common scheme or plan carried out by two or more individuals acting in concert .

That's the criminal definition but it's not the common usage definition. I posted the correct definition of conspiracy theory, I would suggest we all use that definition and not whatever you imagine it should be.
 
Well, the WBF community can't agree on definitions of terms like neutrality, transparency etc. Good luck re common agreement on conspiracy theory Lol.
 
Here's a definition of conspiracy theory that comes up in google search using the terms "conspiracy theory definition"

a belief that some covert but influential organization is responsible for a circumstance or event.

merriam-webster dictionary:

Definition of conspiracy theory

: a theory that explains an event or set of circumstances as the result of a secret plot by usually powerful conspirators



So Ron, can you see how literally applying the definition of "conspiracy" is simply wrong and doesn't fit with common useage?

Can you see how the belief that CCP released the virus, knowingly or not, is by definition a conspiracy theory?

Look, this is FACT, and one of us is right and the other is wrong. This is not a matter of divergent opinion, it's a matter of improper definition of terms!
17532B3B-BB23-403D-8E4C-2723C8E2CE2C.jpeg
 
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You are correct, but I think it's important to agree on what language means, and it's also important to apply moderation to all posts equally. If we can't agree on what a conspiracy theory is, and it's not allowed to post conspiracy theories, then we kinda have an issue...


The CCP lab virus origin theory fits the definition perfectly.
 
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Dear Keith,

You know I agree about our TOS provision which prohibits the discussion of politics on WBF. Of course this requires very subjective and difficult lines to be drawn. It is always a subjective analysis and a slippery slope.

Yes, sometimes there is snooty-snogging when a member writes an ostensibly non-political post knowing well that others will read it as having a political undertone or as having an embodied political message. This is not permissible, and, if detected, will be sanctioned.

Lines have to be drawn to enforce the ban on politics. These lines often are subjective. There is no getting around this reality. The ban attaches to political posts, but does not attach automatically to all discussions of non-audio current events. I don't think it is necessary to draw the line as narrowly as you are suggesting we draw it, especially on the topics of this particular thread at this particular time.

I truly did not consider my rhetorical question about whether it is a coincidence that the virus originated in the town with the virus lab to be political in any way. Simply discussing a particular country is not, to me, necessarily or inherently political. Of course such a discussion may devolve rapidly into an impermissible political discussion.

We have allowed discussions such as about virus preparedness by individual countries, and about actions taken to combat the virus, to proceed on this thread. Arguably, even those discussions have second order political undertones as they discuss individual countries and actions by the leaders of those countries, but as long as the discussions don't turn explicitly political and contentious we are allowing those discussions on this particular thread to proceed.

The ban on politics applies to all threads. However, I will concede that because of the intense focus presently by many members on virus topics and virus-related repercussions (medical, economic, financial, countries), and because more members seem to find solace and interest and outlet in this thread (as long as the medical information posted is accurate) than members who are annoyed by it, we have tended to allow people, on this particular thread, a wider berth than usual.

I appreciate that almost everything I have written in this post is subjective. Honorable and honest people will disagree with my thoughts here, and would draw differently the lines I have attempted to articulate here for this particular thread.

I assure you that Steve and I and the moderators try to be as fair and intellectually honest as possible about the application of the forum's ban on politics. Sometimes it might not seem that way, but the practical reality is that we are not monitoring the site every second of every hour, 24 hours per day. This is why we always welcome our attention being drawn to a particular post or to a particular discussion, either publicly on a thread or privately in a PM, if a member believes a particular post violates the ban on politics or is discourteous to himself/herself or to another member.
I commend you for allowing more lea way on this particular subject and
appreciate the work you guys are doing to keep this forum open in these
troubling times :) I have realized that i am late with my yearly “membership fee” and will correct my oversight !
 
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You are correct, but I think it's important to agree on what language means, and it's also important to apply moderation to all posts equally. If we can't agree on what a conspiracy theory is, and it's not allowed to post conspiracy theories, then we kinda have an issue...


The CCP lab virus origin theory fits the definition perfectly.

Dave, Here is the distinction I would make:

Ron asked about the origin of the virus referring to the proximity of the two locations: wet market and the Wuhan lab. He very carefully did not imply that the virus was engineered, that it was intentional, or that it was carried out by more than one person. In fact, he made no implications at all. Al M. understands this and recently acknowledged that it is a reasonable question and perhaps even a plausible possibility. Obviously no public proof exists, nor may it ever.

Regarding this, you seem to be saying that Ron espoused some theory that the virus was engineered, and released by a consortium of individuals and that there was ill intent. I don't see that from Ron nor any suggestion that there is some kind of conspiracy theory.

On the other hand, you claimed that the US authorities, without naming individuals, denied the existence of the virus. This implies to me that you think there was a group of people in our leadership who knew about it and somehow denied its existence, as though they saw evidence and did not believe it. And even worse, the implication is that they kept it secret from the US public. This would imply ill intent.

It seems to me that the early travel ban of flights from China to the US, imposed by our government and which met with much criticism at the time, would disprove your theory that our leaders were denying the existence of the virus. I think this was very early on in our public awareness that there was an issue.

I simply do not see how these two things are similar. I understand if you do not feel that you can discuss it because of the warning your received, but I remain curious about your claim that our leaders denied the existence of this virus. I do not see any evidence of that, nor is it a claim I have seen mentioned elsewhere. In fact, it seems fantastic to me.
 
brazilian Globo newspaper:


Much is speculated about the origin of the new coronavirus, called Sars-Cov-2, since its appearance in the Chinese city of Wuhan. When cases started to be registered in other countries, conspiracy theories that he was created in a laboratory in China with the objective of bringing economic advantages to the country started to circulate on social networks.
A study published in the journal "Nature Medicine" ruled out that the new virus, which appeared in late 2019, was created in the laboratory. Researchers from the United States, United Kingdom and Australia find evidence that characteristics of the genome of the new coronavirus are probably the result of natural selection.
In comparison with other corona viruses and after biochemical analyzes, the scientists concluded that Sars-Cov-2 has a structure capable of connecting and infecting human cells very effectively, which would be the result of evolution. If genetic manipulation had occurred, one of several genetic systems available to him would probably have been used to develop it.
 
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Dave, Here is the distinction I would make:

Ron asked about the origin of the virus referring to the proximity of the two locations: wet market and the Wuhan lab. He very carefully did not imply that the virus was engineered, that it was intentional, or that it was carried out by more than one person. In fact, he made no implications at all. Al M. understands this and recently acknowledged that it is a reasonable question and perhaps even a plausible possibility. Obviously no public proof exists, nor may it ever.

Regarding this, you seem to be saying that Ron espoused some theory that the virus was engineered, and released by a consortium of individuals and that there was ill intent. I don't see that from Ron nor any suggestion that there is some kind of conspiracy theory.

On the other hand, you claimed that the US authorities, without naming individuals, denied the existence of the virus. This implies to me that you think there was a group of people in our leadership who knew about it and somehow denied its existence, as though they saw evidence and did not believe it. And even worse, the implication is that they kept it secret from the US public. This would imply ill intent.

It seems to me that the early travel ban of flights from China to the US, imposed by our government and which met with much criticism at the time, would disprove your theory that our leaders were denying the existence of the virus. I think this was very early on in our public awareness that there was an issue.

I simply do not see how these two things are similar. I understand if you do not feel that you can discuss it because of the warning your received, but I remain curious about your claim that our leaders denied the existence of this virus. I do not see any evidence of that, nor is it a claim I have seen mentioned elsewhere. In fact, it seems fantastic to me.


I'm not going to discuss this Peter, and you bringing it up repeatedly while you KNOW I can't respond should also be a violation!

I'm done with this subject.
 
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brazilian Globo newspaper:


Much is speculated about the origin of the new coronavirus, called Sars-Cov-2, since its appearance in the Chinese city of Wuhan. When cases started to be registered in other countries, conspiracy theories that he was created in a laboratory in China with the objective of bringing economic advantages to the country started to circulate on social networks.
A study published in the journal "Nature Medicine" ruled out that the new virus, which appeared in late 2019, was created in the laboratory. Researchers from the United States, United Kingdom and Australia find evidence that characteristics of the genome of the new coronavirus are probably the result of natural selection.
In comparison with other corona viruses and after biochemical analyzes, the scientists concluded that Sars-Cov-2 has a structure capable of connecting and infecting human cells very effectively, which would be the result of evolution. If genetic manipulation had occurred, one of several genetic systems available to him would probably have been used to develop it.

Thanks for that. It supports the notion that this was not "engineered", but it also does not contradict the very real possibility that there was an accident in the lab where it was studied. It could then have first infected people there, thereby making its way into the general population.
 
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brazilian Globo newspaper:


Much is speculated about the origin of the new coronavirus, called Sars-Cov-2, since its appearance in the Chinese city of Wuhan. When cases started to be registered in other countries, conspiracy theories that he was created in a laboratory in China with the objective of bringing economic advantages to the country started to circulate on social networks.
A study published in the journal "Nature Medicine" ruled out that the new virus, which appeared in late 2019, was created in the laboratory. Researchers from the United States, United Kingdom and Australia find evidence that characteristics of the genome of the new coronavirus are probably the result of natural selection.
In comparison with other corona viruses and after biochemical analyzes, the scientists concluded that Sars-Cov-2 has a structure capable of connecting and infecting human cells very effectively, which would be the result of evolution. If genetic manipulation had occurred, one of several genetic systems available to him would probably have been used to develop it.

Thank you, but I think this is an answer to a question no one here has asked.

No one on this thread as far as I know is arguing that this coronavirus was engineered in the Wuhan virus lab.

Peter A asked DaveC to explain how the theory that a single individual scientist working in the Wuhan lab who accidentally failed to decontaminate himself/herself properly and accidentally walked out of the lab with the virus, and then accidentally transmitted the virus to another person is a "conspiracy theory" involving two or more people taking an action in furtherance of a criminal or harmful plan.
 
the text is about science.
the other issue is just speculation that will never be known.
 
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That's the criminal definition but it's not the common usage definition. I posted the correct definition of conspiracy theory, I would suggest we all use that definition and not whatever you imagine it should be.
If it is the "criminal definition" then it cannot be my " imagination." Smile
Moreover if there is a conspiracy regarding this virus , it would have to be criminal.
Besides, I am on your side. This is the inevitable consequence of censorship. I warned of this awhile back.
 
Thank you, but I think this is an answer to a question no one here has asked.

Actually it is, Ron. Early conspiracy theories suggested that the virus was engineered for nefarious reasons, and even as a bioweapon. This contradicts the notion.
 
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Ok, so the big distinction I see is a conspiracy theory is always about a large, powerful group or organization, so it always involves more than one person. While the Wuhan lab may have involved a single scientist that made a big mistake, they are still a part of the Wuhan lab and CCP, and this is still the very definition of a conspiracy theory.

Also, as I won't respond to previous inquiries, I will leave this here:

You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.

-Winston Churchill
 
Ok, so the big distinction I see is a conspiracy theory is always about a large, powerful group or organization, so it always involves more than one person. While the Wuhan lab may have involved a single scientist that made a big mistake, they are still a part of the Wuhan lab and CCP, and this is still the very definition of a conspiracy theory.

Also, as I won't respond to previous inquiries, I will leave this here:

You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.

-Winston Churchill
One of my favorite Churchill quotes.
 
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