This Corona Virus Mania is Just Too Much, We All Need to Chill!

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Finally I thought this paper gave some interesting anecdotal findings

March 25, 2020
FDA: Studies Underway to Evaluate Chloroquine for COVID-19


https://www.rheumatologyadvisor.com...=cpc&utm_campaign=april-20-traffic-drivers-ra

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) announced that it is working closely with other government agencies and academic centers to investigate the potential use of chloroquine for the treatment of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19).

Chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine (an analog of chloroquine) are indicated for the treatment of malaria, lupus, and rheumatoid arthritis. Recent studies have shown that chloroquine can potentially reduce the duration of symptoms and viral shedding in COVID-19 patients.

Recently, findings were announced from an open-label study investigating hydroxychloroquine in hospitalized patients with confirmed COVID-19 at The Méditerranée Infection University Hospital Institute in Marseille, France. Patients received oral hydroxychloroquine 200mg 3 times daily for 10 days (n=20), and those who refused were part of the control group (n=16). Patients were included if they were 12 years of age and older, and had PCR documented SARS-CoV-2 carriage in nasopharyngeal samples at admission. Treatment with antibiotics (eg, azithromycin) was also provided to patients to prevent bacterial infections. The primary end point was virological clearance at day 6 post-inclusion.

Results of the study showed that by day 6 post-inclusion, 70% of hydroxychloroquine-treated patients were virologically cured vs 12.5% in the control group (P =.001). Moreover, at day 6 post-inclusion, 100% of patients treated with hydroxychloroquine plus azithromycin were virologically cured compared with 57.1% of patients with hydroxychloroquine only and 12.5% of the control group (P <.001). A significant difference between the hydroxychloroquine and control groups was reported as early as day 3 post-inclusion.

Study investigators noted that 1 patient treated with hydroxychloroquine who was still PCR-positive at day 6 post-inclusion was given azithromycin in addition to hydroxychloroquine at day 8, and was virologically cured at day 9. Conversely, 1 patient treated with the combination therapy who tested negative at day 6, tested positive at low titer at day 8. While the results look promising, the researchers noted limitations to their study including small sample size, limited long-term outcome follow-up, and dropout of 6 patients from the study.
 
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New member , first post.
I'n an Intensive Care specialist when I'm not listening to music. About half of the deaths I'm seeing from this are from cardiac causes, not respiratory. In face , from a lung point of view , some of this who die are making slight improvements . What I'm seeing is an abrupt deterioration in the cardiovascular system akin to an acute myocarditis or severe viral cardiomyopathy. Once this happens , there appears to be an inexorable decline towards irreversible cardiac death. I've seen bad swine flu ( in fact, got it from a sick patient). This is worse, far worse despite what the so called experts say.

Surfski,
Thanks for this comment. The cardiac complications of COVID-19 are only now becoming recognized as fundamentally different than those that occur in the respiratory system. There are observations of primary cardiac harm in COVID, mechanism(s) of injury and attack rate yet to be determined. Phenotypically, it looks like cardiomyopathy. Last week's JAMA Cardiology has several reports and editorials that address this in more detail.
Marty

Screen Shot 2020-04-08 at 11.14.54 AM.png
 
Interesting to me, all the anger and fury over the Chinese saying the US is responsible, yet the release of the virus via a CCP virus lab is acceptable.

Both are conspiracy theories. And I'm sure there are Chinese who are offended by the CCP lab conspiracy theory too.

But the fact is, we don't know ANYTHING. Since this is the case, the outrage is laughable and simply confirms bias, imo.
 
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Surfski,
Thanks for this comment. The cardiac complications of COVID-19 are only now becoming recognized as fundamentally different than those that occur in the respiratory system. There are observations of primary cardiac harm in COVID, mechanism(s) of injury and attack rate yet to be determined. Phenotypically, it looks like cardiomyopathy. Last week's JAMA Cardiology has several reports and editorials that address this in more detail.
Marty

View attachment 63778
everything I read says cardiomyopathy or myocarditis as well
 
Right. Well, maybe they are not all "missing", but I suspect open questioning by the locals and the sharing of information is not entirely welcome. I don't really know. Regardless, that is relevant, it seems to me, and that specific point was not emphasized in that article about theories of the origin. Why not? At first glance the article seems comprehensive, but it does not really go into the subject too deeply, IMO. For instance, I think there are other examples of viruses accidentally escaping from labs.

Why rank the lab theory as "dubious"? Al M. thinks it might be "plausible". It is certainly "possible". It's fine not to propose it as "likely".

The source is a proven fake news website. I wouldn’t read too much into it.
 
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Interesting to me, all the anger and fury over the Chinese saying the US is responsible, yet the release of the virus via a CCP virus lab is acceptable.

Both are conspiracy theories. And I'm sure there are Chinese who are offended by the CCP lab conspiracy theory too.

But the fact is, we don't know ANYTHING. Since this is the case, the outrage is laughable and simply confirms bias, imo.

Precisely my point, Dave. Thank you. You say "anything", I would say "much" about the origin of the virus, certainly not enough to rule out possible locations.

Speaking for myself, I hardly feel anger or fury yet. That may come later. I hope not.
 
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everything I read says cardiomyopathy or myocarditis as well

Interesting last few posts, Steve. Do you think that hydroxychloroquine and amoxicillin should be tried? If azithromycin appears to increase death risk?

Also a question for you MD's: Is decrease procalcitonin a reaction to increase troponin and/or BUN/cr ratio?

Does anyone know if HFNC has been tried in an environment where they can control the fact it's like putting cv19 into spray can and emptying it into the room?
 
Interesting to me, all the anger and fury over the Chinese saying the US is responsible, yet the release of the virus via a CCP virus lab is acceptable.

Who says the release of the virus via a CCP virus lab is acceptable?
 
Precisely my point, Dave. Thank you. You say "anything", I would say "much" about the origin of the virus, certainly not enough to rule out possible locations.

Speaking for myself, I hardly feel anger or fury yet. That may come later. I hope not.


True, experts I've heard have said there is no indication covid is caused by an engineered virus, but of course it still leaves open the possibility it was being studied in the Wuhan lab and accidentally released.
 
Who says the release of the virus via a CCP virus lab is acceptable?

Lol, not what I meant...

I intended to say discussion of such possibility is acceptable, yet the mention of US responsibility creates anger and is unacceptable to discuss.

CNN is a news operation, and CCP claiming US responsibility IS NEWS. It's OK for a news agency to report on news you don't enjoy hearing, and it WAS NOT reported in such a way you'd mistake it for being presented as FACT.

The outrage over this is ridiculous and laughable imo.
 
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Here a story from a dutch newspaper/internet site , i have no reason to doubt it .
Its from a recent visit to wuhan .
(And no dsjina 2 not because the reporter wanted to munch on a bat , lol).

https://www.telegraaf.nl/video/2039679005/inwoners-wuhan-enorm-bang-voor-buitenlanders


Okay now for everybody who doesnt understand dutch .
Its a chinese /dutch woman /reporter based in beijing who visited wuhan .
She has a chinese passport .
Foreign passports are not allowed to enter china at the moment
Life is beginning to open up but a lot is still closed .
Temp. is checked of the citizens regularly and people are monitored via phone apps .
Travel to and from wuhan is possible although limited and monitored.
The famous Bat (live )market has been closed .
Entry is not allowed for journalists.
People are still scared for a second wave a bit.
Plus they are semingly scared of foreigners who might " bring " the virus .

I dont want to go into politics here but it seems the orwelian state is more and more " unavoidable " , control controll and more control i see in the future .


Note, she did not ask the citizens where they thought the virus originated .
 
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True, experts I've heard have said there is no indication covid is caused by an engineered virus, but of course it still leaves open the possibility it was being studied in the Wuhan lab and accidentally released.

I read something that was published by a group in south china (I wish I could find that link) little favored by the CCP that discussed a particular researcher at that lab in Wuhan who was a real nut for collecting and identifying virus found on bats. Apparently he traveled the area extensively to collect samples from bats in the wild and would return to study his samples at the lab. I won't speak to the validity or veracity of the report. This particular lab was supposedly responsible for identifying hundreds of virus previously unknown. I also read (caveats above apply) that in that lab there were areas with strict isolation protocols and other areas with less strict protocols and appropriate measures not always adhered to.

Like everything I read, I parse and filter the plausible from the sensational (trying to be aware of my own bias filters). Given the above, and the proximity of the lab to the wet market, it seems possible to me 1) a lab that does extensive viral studies, particularly studies of virus found on bats, that 2) has less than amazing adherence to isolation protocols, and 3) employs many junior researchers might very well be a source of an accidental leak of a virus.

As to bio-weapon, given the closing of the world economy, I could certainly think having a little virus to release and at the same time having an antidote for all my own soldiers would certainly put my enemies on their heels. That would be an entirely feasible area of research. I would not be surprised to learn such research is ongoing by USA, China, Russia, etc. I don't know anyone else with this idea, but I'm sure they exist. Please please don't add me to the conspiracy theory crowd.
 
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Interesting last few posts, Steve. Do you think that hydroxychloroquine and amoxicillin should be tried? If azithromycin appears to increase death risk?

Also a question for you MD's: Is decrease procalcitonin a reaction to increase troponin and/or BUN/cr ratio?

Does anyone know if HFNC has been tried in an environment where they can control the fact it's like putting cv19 into spray can and emptying it into the room?


Hi Folsom

These are all very complex questions and well above my pay grade.I can only leave answers and recommendations to those health care heroes who are on the front line battling this horrible virus. I would defer to any and all thoughts posted here by those more qualified than I am. I anxiously await some of the thoughts of surfski who is seeing this first hand
 
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