This Corona Virus Mania is Just Too Much, We All Need to Chill!

[Folsom]

My son in law told me that the FDA is fast tracking these drugs

as far as renal failure I am no expert so what I say is not gospel. From what I am reading the renal failure is caused by micro thromboses in the kidneys rather than from only ACE-2 but in all likelihood it remains as yet poorly understood

Bottom line is simple. It isn't the virus that is going to kill you but rather the comorbidities such as ARDS and organ failure (heart, lungs, kidneys) as a result of the cytokine storm

You're right, comorbidities is the biggest issue. But not everyone has a cytokine storm, a large number of patients are having straight up failure without that auto-immune level response - or even after they get off of the machines and appear ok breathing wise. Regardless we have to work on the things we can influence efficiently.

BTW ACE-2 is the good enzyme that prevent run away ACE (which has it's own role, to make sure blood pressure doesn't drop 0 for instance). You'll call me crazy but if I could sneak in little packets of olive oil for jaioviera's friend to dip his food in, I would. You can't heal anything by reducing ACE, but it helps create the conditions so that it's possible.

 

[Lagonda]

A very good site. The graphics come live just with scrolling. Clever presentation but very good information as well.
The graph at the end of the article regarding spread is particularly revealing as to what may very well happen here in the next few months.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-26/coronavirus-covid19-global-spread-data-explained/12089028

Wow Marty that is a great explainer !

 

[Gregadd]

I just want to say adopting a national policy does not mean all areas are treated the same. There should be a minimal policy.
If we were testing and tracking and isolating contacts we could adopt a fluid policy .

 

[djsina2]

You can also go to anyplace that is considered essential, like post office, hardware store, grocery store, take-out food, etc.

In some places (here, thankfully) hiking and biking trails remain open.

Yes, essentials have never been banned. That would make no sense. Although as of today MI has new rules about hardware stores and garden stores.

It’s funny that trails are not banned. If anywhere that’s where you’re going to get the virus. Impossible to stay 6 ft apart on single track and if someone coughs or sneezes you’ll be riding right through it.

 

[PeterA]

Yes, essentials have never been banned. That would make no sense. Although as of today MI has new rules about hardware stores and garden stores.

It’s funny that trails are not banned. If anywhere that’s where you’re going to get the virus. Impossible to stay 6 ft apart on single track and if someone coughs or sneezes you’ll be riding right through it.

They have shut down a popular seaside sidewalk in my town because it is only 8' wide, yet, other sidewalks, much narrower are open, so people are walking in the streets until a car passes by. I would think a narrow single track trail through the woods would not be very safe if it is crowded, especially with two way traffic. I remember climbing Mt. Fuji in 1990. I was one of about 800 people walking single file up the mountain throughout the night to catch the sunrise. We were like a line of ants, hiking for eight hours. No social distancing at all.

 

[bonzo75]

Iceland finds that half of its population with CV shows no symptoms https://www.marketwatch.com/story/i...coronavirus-have-shown-no-symptoms-2020-04-10

 

[Legolas]

i was just listening to a local 'natural medicine' radio talk show my wife listens to every Saturday morning. mostly common sense medical talk......i've heard during breakfast Saturday mornings for years.

https://www.longevitymedicalclinic.com/blog/category/podcasts

they were talking about how back in January many Chinese were entering HK from PRC areas affected by the virus, but due to the extreme 'mask' culture of HK that the spread of the virus even with the influx of infected people was stopped. it's 'normal' for people there to wear masks. and if anyone is ill the whole family will wear masks in the home. that its normal to wear masks in restaurants except when you are eating. then put the mask back on. it's expected and an exception to not wear a mask.

that sounds like where we are going if we want to have normal freedoms post virus. the virus will still be around. and clearly it can work.

It's a nice idea, and also wear a mask outside, but the facts are you get infection via the eyes as well, and hands, so unless we wear eye goggles and rubber gloves, it is very hard to avoid contamination. An infected person sneezing infects the air for up to 5 minutes, as the micro particles floats around. In a shop or elevator environment that is really bad. Myself, until we get a vaccine, flying is out, as is boats and even car sharing. It's a nightmare...

 

[bonzo75]

The above percentage study leaves out some smaller groups. There was a choir which went for practice, 60 people, of whom 45 had CV a few days later. And then the UT Austin student group also had a high penetration rate.

 

[bonzo75]

Iceland finds that half of its population with CV shows no symptoms https://www.marketwatch.com/story/i...coronavirus-have-shown-no-symptoms-2020-04-10

Vikings are tough

 

[Mike Lavigne]

It's a nice idea, and also wear a mask outside, but the facts are you get infection via the eyes as well, and hands, so unless we wear eye goggles and rubber gloves, it is very hard to avoid contamination. An infected person sneezing infects the air for up to 5 minutes, as the micro particles floats around. In a shop or elevator environment that is really bad. Myself, until we get a vaccine, flying is out, as is boats and even car sharing. It's a nightmare...

you might only stop catching the virus 80% with a mask (and possibly the right mask). as there are other ways.

but 50% of the equation is spreading the virus, which is mainly from your breath. or touching your face and then surfaces.

the math overwhelmingly supports mask wearing as a spread inhibitor.

 

[dminches]

Iceland finds that half of its population with CV shows no symptoms https://www.marketwatch.com/story/i...coronavirus-have-shown-no-symptoms-2020-04-10

I am confused by the article, and maybe it is just the writer, but later in the article is says ”And it’s already made some important discoveries. Among them: that between 0.3% and 0.8% of Iceland’s population is infected with the coronavirus, while half of those who tested positive were asymptomatic as the time of their tests.”

Did they follow these people after the test to see if they developed symptoms? This is what happened on one of the cruise ships. People tested positive while not displaying symptoms but developed symptoms later.

 

[VLS]

 

[Folsom]

I am confused by the article, and maybe it is just the writer, but later in the article is says ”And it’s already made some important discoveries. Among them: that between 0.3% and 0.8% of Iceland’s population is infected with the coronavirus, while half of those who tested positive were asymptomatic as the time of their tests.”

Did they follow these people after the test to see if they developed symptoms? This is what happened on one of the cruise ships. People tested positive while not displaying symptoms but developed symptoms later.

I think the big question is, is this data for antibodies or not? I suspect it isn't (not yet, it may be later). Given the hordes of undiagnosed people in WA that had symptoms, it would make one think twice about Iceland's numbers.

 

[Tango]

Vikings are tough

Is it a new normal talking to yourself Bonz. This virus certainly has all kind of effects.

 

[rbbert]

...Since you claim to know so much and are full of yourself why haven't you enlightened everyone with your wisdom and knowledge?

You love to run your mouth, claiming my linked sites for statistics aren't credible doesn't cut it. Show us your credible sites with the wildly differing statistics instead of this ridiculous and childish personal crap!

david

I never claimed your sites for statistics aren't credible, only your interpretation of them. I will (and do) use some of the same sites. As far as enlightenment, if you actually read my posts, you should come away with an increased understanding of what is happening and why.

 

[bonzo75]

Is it a new normal talking to yourself Bonz. This virus certainly has all kind of effects.

I just chat with the most interesting types

 

[rbbert]

Some posters here are consistently critical of experts' recommendations and opinions, despite the fact that most of these experts are probably smarter and better educated, and definitely with better access to relevant data than you and I. It's one thing thing to be critical of or disagree with opinions about audio, something very personal and subjective; it's quite different to do that with something threatening our lives and lifestyles, unless you have relevant qualifications and evidence

 

[rando]

I should recommend an exercise.

And that should be to sing along to your favorite recordings.
Rest.
Then sing until you have (re)learned how to use your diaphragm.

Now you may finally begin singing through even the faintest of breaths.

 

[Bobvin]

Some posters here are consistently critical of experts' recommendations and opinions, despite the fact that most of these experts are probably smarter and better educated, and definitely with better access to relevant data than you and I. It's one thing thing to be critical of or disagree with opinions about audio, something very personal and subjective; it's quite different to do that with something threatening our lives and lifestyles, unless you have relevant qualifications and evidence

Personally, I don’t care much for “experts” who claim to know things... I only listen to those “experts” who are humble and recognize the limitations of their own knowledge, who recognize humankind is embryonic in our knowledge, and a hundred years from now things we think we know are likely to be laughed at. It is the nature of scientific research and understanding to have paradigm changes. So when someone toots their own horn I usually stop listening and seek alternative explanations. I become the most skeptical when people start advocating for consensus... “I must be right, just look at this long list of people who agree with me.”

 

[dminches]

Personally, I don’t care much for “experts” who claim to know things... I only listen to those “experts” who are humble and recognize the limitations of their own knowledge, who recognize humankind is embryonic in our knowledge, and a hundred years from now things we think we know are likely to be laughed. It is the nature of scientific research and understanding to have paradigm changes. So when someone toots their own horn I usually stop listening and seek alternative explanations. I become the most skeptical when people start advocating for consensus.

I agree with your "tooting their own horn" view. With this virus, for the most part, I have seen "experts" and professionals be very cautious when answering questions. Most say that this is the current thinking but by no means do they think it has been written in stone. This definitely goes for the modeling. We aren't hearing the modelers talk about the projections; we are hearing politicians and other leaders discuss results. I am sure that the modelers would tell people to view them with a mound of salt since the assumptions are based on data that is still developing.