This Corona Virus Mania is Just Too Much, We All Need to Chill!

[howiebrou]

Comments have been made on Singapore which has been relatively successful in controlling the virus. Their schools were not shut, unlike us, they were told they didn't have to wear masks, unlike us etc etc. Unfortunately their cases have skyrocketed in the last week, although nothing like those in places with similar populations. 2000 cases or so in a population of 5.5 million is relatively low but now they are in lockdown. My brother, who lives there is worried. Like I said it can turn on a dime. We are lucky here in Hong Kong with a population and density similar to NYC but only 1000 cases and 4 deaths. I am staying vigilant, even though we have basically no lockdown here except for schools and lots are working from home. It has resulted in our health services not being overwhelmed to the extent seen in many major cities and that may be why our death rates are so low. I worry about Japan as they have very low testing rates.

 

[bonzo75]

That's pretty funny, Bonzo, and this post is in the spirit of the OP and thread title. I understand the ignoring science part, but don't we pay particular attention to the observation part? I mean, you and all your visits and writings and conclusions, shared with the rest of us? You exemplify observations.

Yes but most purchases are not that way, they are made off googling or some quick shallow assessment

 

[howiebrou]

https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-michigan-travel-ban-visits-20200410.html

“After Friday, Michigan residents will no longer be able to jump in the car — or cross the street — to visit friends and relatives inside the state, or to go to the cottage Up North, with limited exceptions.
That is one of the major changes in Gov. Gretchen Whitmer’s “stay home” order, issued Thursday, which also extends the expiration of the order to May 1.”

Good to hear. Hope you all stay safe.

 

[PeterA]

Thanks. I am afraid you are exaggerating. The order:

https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/0,9309,7-387-90499_90705-522626--,00.html

reads more like the reasonable measure that we have in Massachusetts.

Al, there is no one set of rules in MA. There may be one set of guidelines from our governor, but my town is behaving differently from your town, and even within my town, some open spaces are open and some are closed. This results in individuals acting differently in different places. It seems to be more dependant on the local conditions than on any particular mandate from the Fed or state governments.

 

[rbbert]

...people seem to have different opinions about what social distancing is...

Isn't this the truth

 

[DaveC]

Yes, exactly as I stated. Of course if someone is trouble you can go and help out.

You can also go to anyplace that is considered essential, like post office, hardware store, grocery store, take-out food, etc.

In some places (here, thankfully) hiking and biking trails remain open.

 

[Steve williams]

As an aside, it grieves me to hear how scammers and crooks are using this virus to exploit the elderly using robocalls stating how they can get free masks, free diabetes monitors etc etc. They ask for credit cards and bank information and before you can blink these people are cleaned out with life savings stlen

People who do this IMO are despicable and are truly scabs on the asshole of society

 

[Al M.]

Why don't travels bans work? Why couldn't individual states restrict movement across their own borders with the exception of trans state commerce? We have all read reports where RI is restricting NY residents and our own Cape Cod, either residents or local leaders, wanted to close itself off from the rest of the state. Small coastal communities in ME want to keep non residents out, including those from NY who own houses there. Heck, the next town over from me even restricted use of their beaches to non town residents.

If this gets much worse, I can see a scenario where it was countries acting in their own interests first, then states, then cities, then towns, then neighborhoods, then individuals. I hope it never reaches that point, but I saw hints of this kind of response a couple of weeks ago.

We are a country made up of a federation of individual states. There are boundaries between the Federal Govt and state governments. I'm no expert, but why is it necessarily the case that only a complete country wide solution by Federal fiat is the only solution that many people consider viable? We have already seen governors acting on their own, and they have been praised for their initiatives. The US is a large, incredibly culturally diverse country, with huge differences by region, state, and county.

There are some instances where a strong federal response is warranted, and there are others were a more nuanced approach may be most effective. One example may be a federal aviation ban for citizens within the country and a ban for all non citizens at our national borders. But within states, or regions, it is not clear to me. Doctors on TV are saying that if there are no people on the hiking trail with you, take off your mask, if there are people, keep the mask on. This recommendation is a direct response to different conditions on the ground.

I don't see why the US is so frequently compared to much smaller, more homogenous countries and cultures. Customs, needs, populations, behaviors, and conditions on the ground are often very different. Such simple analogies are not so simple, IMO.

A travel ban is basically forced quarantine, and as the simulation in the link shows, this does not work. Especially travel bans between entire countries are bound to be leaky; the more local the level, the more it might work. But even if does, only as an aide to, not replacement of, social distancing.

 

[Al M.]

Al, there is no one set of rules in MA. There may be one set of guidelines from our governor, but my town is behaving differently from your town, and even within my town, some open spaces are open and some are closed. This results in individuals acting differently in different places. It seems to be more dependant on the local conditions than on any particular mandate from the Fed or state governments.

Yes, but the overarching mandate by the state still sets the overall direction.

And while the personal decisions on social distancing are still my own, the governor's mandate has made me modify them in the spirit of shared social responsibility and of adjustment to the changing conditions on the ground.

 

[ddk]

On Apr 3 there were 1049 cases; on Apr 9 there were 2108, i.e., more than doubling in 6 days. That is NOT a plateau.

Look at the last graph for mortality rates, what I've been pointing out not new cases that you switch to, of course that's a linear trajectory as they add up anywhere.

david

 

[Lagonda]

As an aside, it grieves me to hear how scammers and crooks are using this virus to exploit the elderly using robocalls stating how they can get free masks, free diabetes monitors etc etc. They ask for credit cards and bank information and before you can blink these people are cleaned out with life savings stlen

People who do this IMO are despicable and are truly scabs on the asshole of society

One of the first things we did in my country was double the sentence for all crimes connected to the coronavirus crisis, stealing scamming, and internet related crimes. And we quadrupled the sentence for anyone or company trying to embezzle public aid packaged funds given to pay for salaries and expenses for small and large companies.

 

[PeterA]

A travel ban is basically forced quarantine, and as the simulation in the link shows, this does not work. Especially travel bans between entire countries are bound to be leaky; the more local the level, the more it might work. But even if does, only as an aide to, not replacement of, social distancing.

Agree. Nothing is perfect. There are always people sneaking across boarders. I don't think I ever suggested replacing social distancing. Common sense should prevail with some larger enforcement like travel bans from authorities, at least for the time being. However, we have not gone to a complete lockdown yet, which is fortunate, IMO.

 

[rbbert]

Look at the last graph for mortality rates, what I've been pointing out not new cases that you switch to, of course that's a linear trajectory as they add up anywhere.

david

But the death rate is going to lag the new case rate by up to 3-4 weeks. And it is not a linear trajectory, it an exponential trajectory. Why do you keep displaying your ignorance and expect people to take you seriously?

 

[PeterA]

Yes, but the overarching mandate by the state still sets the overall direction.

And while the personal decisions on social distancing are still my own, the governor's mandate has made me modify them in the spirit of shared social responsibility and of adjustment to the changing conditions on the ground.

Yes, this makes sense and it involves common sense. Changing conditions on the ground seem to be different in different locations. And you are visiting others in their homes, while some people are choosing not do to that. For instance, I suggested to my father that he not continue to meet with his friend for their weekly luncheon together. I did that three weeks ago.

Do "adjustments to the changing conditions on the ground" warrant a complete lock down mandated by the Federal Government? It seems that MA is different from say North and Sound Dakota.

 

[Lagonda]

But the death rate is going to lag the new case rate by up to 3-4 weeks. And it is not a linear trajectory, it an exponential trajectory. Why do you keep displaying your ignorance and expect people to take you seriously?

Why do you have to be so insulting ? David is being perfectly civil, for once , and is allowed his own opinion.
I tend to agree with your assessments by the way.

 

[Folsom]

Back to a slightly earlier topic! Since I suggested that JK Rawlings MD had a very legit reason(1) for the breathing exercise, I should recommend an exercise. Her doctor had her doing just deep breathing, and a cough probably so that she didn't come to tears trying to stop the cough. My suggestion if possible without blocked nostrils, is alternate nostril breathing(2). In this case breath in deeply, and don't worry so much about the sitting position just do what's comfortable. Why I like it more than just deep breathing(2) is that you force cycling of the dominate nostril (you may have noticed one is usually more open, especially when you're sick). This has a therapeutic affect on stress.

1. Increasing ACE-2, the anti-inflammatory, blood pressure lowering, enzyme that cv19 lowers by preferring the cells that stimulate increased ACE-2. (ACE-2 seems to be in general increased with oxygen concentration)

2. ANB & PB

I'll spare you trying to figure out what lnTP, lnLF, and lnHF mean. They're measures of total power, low frequency, and high frequency - basically how effectively the heart is triggered to beat (cardiac autonomic modulation). Frequency refers to how fast it is beating. These are exactly the things we want to see improved in many cv19 patients, since those that have passed away have lab results showing cardiac autonomic modulation failure.

(Note, I feel comfortable posting this because the net result of no benefit is a bunch of audiophiles breathing a little bit more; just like they do when trying to get a heavy piece of new gear up/down some stairs or maybe even worse watch someone else handle the heavy gear)

 

[Al M.]

Yes, this makes sense and it involves common sense. Changing conditions on the ground seem to be different in different locations. And you are visiting others in their homes, while some people are choosing not do to that.

I am visiting a single home with relatives, yes.

 

[marty]

A very good site. The graphics come live just with scrolling. Clever presentation but very good information as well.
The graph at the end of the article regarding spread is particularly revealing as to what may very well happen here in the next few months.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-26/coronavirus-covid19-global-spread-data-explained/12089028

 

[ddk]

But the death rate is going to lag the new case rate by up to 3-4 weeks. And it is not a linear trajectory, it an exponential trajectory. Why do you keep displaying your ignorance and expect people to take you seriously?

You continue to be an ass!
Now you want to argue future statistics, how do you know if the mortality rate will change?

FYI
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/linear-graph

 

[Mike Lavigne]

i was just listening to a local 'natural medicine' radio talk show my wife listens to every Saturday morning. mostly common sense medical talk......i've heard during breakfast Saturday mornings for years.

https://www.longevitymedicalclinic.com/blog/category/podcasts

they were talking about how back in January many Chinese were entering HK from PRC areas affected by the virus, but due to the extreme 'mask' culture of HK that the spread of the virus even with the influx of infected people was stopped. it's 'normal' for people there to wear masks. and if anyone is ill the whole family will wear masks in the home. that its normal to wear masks in restaurants except when you are eating. then put the mask back on. it's expected and an exception to not wear a mask.

that sounds like where we are going if we want to have normal freedoms post virus. the virus will still be around. and clearly it can work.