This Corona Virus Mania is Just Too Much, We All Need to Chill!

[rbbert]

You said the lack of trust in science and experts is the downfall of society.

I was thinking of different opinions I hear about using HCQ+ as a virus treatment. Some experts say they have great success with it. Some experts say don't use it because it has not had enough testing...

There are no "experts" advocating the use of hydroxychloroquine; these proponents are either practicing physicians or (discredited, for the most part) researchers. The experts (medical specialists and professional societies) are pretty unanimously decrying its current use, calling for restraint until actual research is done

 

[Al M.]

Due to the the audio hobby people are conditioned to ignoring science and observations

Good one.

 

[djsina2]

Agreed, you cannot "lock down" individual states from one another. As for quarantining, this may work on an individual level, but not on a massive public level. Forced quarantines are always breached, which is why social distancing is so much more efficient, as the simulations here show:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/

This also shows why travel bans don't work, especially when their enforcement has been so lax and has been full of loopholes. A travel ban may buy you one, at the most two, weeks time, but the end result will be the same.

My state is in total lockdown starting today. Nobody is allowed to travel between homes. As in you cannot go to your relatives, friends, or even your own home if you own two. Ridiculous. I will not be abiding by this.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Due to the the audio hobby people are conditioned to ignoring science and observations

Lol ,

 

[Al M.]

My state is in total lockdown starting today. Nobody is allowed to travel between homes. As in you cannot go to your relatives, friends, or even your own home if you own two. Ridiculous. I will not be abiding by this.

A responsible mandate for social distancing like in my state of Massachusetts is welcome, and I abide by it. I don't visit friends anymore, unfortunately, but they all agree that this is the most responsible thing to do, and they practice the same will all their friends. But of course I continue to go to my relatives, a mandated ban on that would be ridiculous, and they practice responsible social distancing themselves (I trust them on that, otherwise I would have to be afraid to get sick myself). Another thing would be visiting elderly relatives, which should make one consider self restraint.

Nobody is allowed to travel between homes, are you sure? No cars on the street? Which state is that, if I may ask?

 

[djsina2]

Nobody is allowed to travel between homes, are you sure? No cars on the street? Which state is that, if I may ask?

Yes, I am sure (according to the news). Michigan.

 

[Al M.]

Yes, I am sure (according to the news). Michigan.

Thanks. I am afraid you are exaggerating. The order:

https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/0,9309,7-387-90499_90705-522626--,00.html

reads more like the reasonable measure that we have in Massachusetts.

 

[rbbert]

Thanks. I am afraid you are exaggerating. The order:

https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/0,9309,7-387-90499_90705-522626--,00.html

reads more like the reasonable measure that we have in Massachusetts.

Yes, it reads similarly to the "shelter-in-place" orders in many states. Or in other words, common sense (which these days is uncommon in so many areas of thought and behavior, not just this one)

 

[Al M.]

There are no "experts" advocating the use of hydroxychloroquine; these proponents are either practicing physicians or (discredited, for the most part) researchers. The experts (medical specialists and professional societies) are pretty unanimously decrying its current use, calling for restraint until actual research is done

You make important distinctions here, well said. We need more and scientifically rigorous, randomized clinical studies.

 

[djsina2]

Thanks. I am afraid you are exaggerating. The order:

https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/0,9309,7-387-90499_90705-522626--,00.html

reads more like the reasonable measure that we have in Massachusetts.

Maybe they haven’t updated that with the new rules since the dates are clearly wrong. It says April 13th end date, but with the update today it is May 1st.

“Under the new order, all public and private gatherings among persons outside a single household remain temporarily prohibited.”

 

[Al M.]

Maybe they haven’t updated that with the new rules since the dates are clearly wrong. It says April 13th end date, but with the update today it is May 1st.

Did they change the restrictions?

 

[jeff1225]

Maybe they haven’t updated that with the new rules since the dates are clearly wrong. It says April 13th end date, but with the update today it is May 1st.

“Under the new order, all public and private gatherings among persons outside a single household remain temporarily prohibited.”

They just extended the current rules out. No over the top draconian measures. More fake news.

 

[Gregadd]

The USA is a populous country, so of course we have a high absolute number of infections and deaths. The fatality rate per million people is lower in the USA than in several Western European countries, including in the Netherlands. This is definitely not the impression European news sources indicate.

That is a logical analysis. Further reflection reveals China and India e.g. have significant population but lag behind the US in cases. This appears to be the result of more aggressive treatment than the U.S.A.
China and India approxmately1.4 billion each.

 

[djsina2]

They just extended the current rules out. No over the top draconian measures. More fake news.

https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-michigan-travel-ban-visits-20200410.html

“After Friday, Michigan residents will no longer be able to jump in the car — or cross the street — to visit friends and relatives inside the state, or to go to the cottage Up North, with limited exceptions.
That is one of the major changes in Gov. Gretchen Whitmer’s “stay home” order, issued Thursday, which also extends the expiration of the order to May 1.”

 

[PeterA]

Agreed, you cannot "lock down" individual states from one another. As for quarantining, this may work on an individual level, but not on a massive public level. Forced quarantines are always breached, which is why social distancing is so much more efficient, as the simulations here show:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/

This also shows why travel bans don't work, especially when their enforcement has been so lax and has been full of loopholes. A travel ban may buy you one, at the most two, weeks time, but the end result will be the same.

Why don't travels bans work? Why couldn't individual states restrict movement across their own borders with the exception of trans state commerce? We have all read reports where RI is restricting NY residents and our own Cape Cod, either residents or local leaders, wanted to close itself off from the rest of the state. Small coastal communities in ME want to keep non residents out, including those from NY who own houses there. Heck, the next town over from me even restricted use of their beaches to non town residents.

If this gets much worse, I can see a scenario where it was countries acting in their own interests first, then states, then cities, then towns, then neighborhoods, then individuals. I hope it never reaches that point, but I saw hints of this kind of response a couple of weeks ago.

We are a country made up of a federation of individual states. There are boundaries between the Federal Govt and state governments. I'm no expert, but why is it necessarily the case that only a complete country wide solution by Federal fiat is the only solution that many people consider viable? We have already seen governors acting on their own, and they have been praised for their initiatives. The US is a large, incredibly culturally diverse country, with huge differences by region, state, and county.

There are some instances where a strong federal response is warranted, and there are others were a more nuanced approach may be most effective. One example may be a federal aviation ban for citizens within the country and a ban for all non citizens at our national borders. But within states, or regions, it is not clear to me. Doctors on TV are saying that if there are no people on the hiking trail with you, take off your mask, if there are people, keep the mask on. This recommendation is a direct response to different conditions on the ground.

I don't see why the US is so frequently compared to much smaller, more homogenous countries and cultures. Customs, needs, populations, behaviors, and conditions on the ground are often very different. Such simple analogies are not so simple, IMO.

 

[rbbert]

Here is the updated order

https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/0,9309,7-387-90499_90705-525182--,00.html

It says travel between 2 residences is not permitted, but it also says it is permitted to perform "necessary" tasks for family members, the elderly, other persons with vulnerabilities, etc.

 

[PeterA]

Due to the the audio hobby people are conditioned to ignoring science and observations

That's pretty funny, Bonzo, and this post is in the spirit of the OP and thread title. I understand the ignoring science part, but don't we pay particular attention to the observation part? I mean, you and all your visits and writings and conclusions, shared with the rest of us? You exemplify observations.

 

[djsina2]

Here is the updated order

https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/0,9309,7-387-90499_90705-525182--,00.html

It says travel between 2 residences is not permitted, but it also says it is permitted to perform "necessary" tasks for family members, the elderly, other persons with vulnerabilities, etc.

Yes, exactly as I stated. Of course if someone is trouble you can go and help out.

 

[Folsom]

That's pretty funny, Bonzo, and this post is in the spirit of the OP and thread title. I understand the ignoring science part, but don't we pay particular attention to the observation part? I mean, you and all your visits and writings and conclusions, shared with the rest of us? You exemplify observations.

I said this earlier, too, at this point everything is observational with the coronavirus if it isn't lab results from patients. We *think* lock down, social distances, etc, is what's decreasing numbers but cannot prove it. It seems logical, but we're also blind to the numbers. These graphs are bad showing the incline, very inaccurate, because they can't retroactively get the data from December and January, let alone February (or accurately in March). We desperately need antibody tests being run by the hundreds of thousands.

 

[PeterA]

A responsible mandate for social distancing like in my state of Massachusetts is welcome, and I abide by it. I don't visit friends anymore, unfortunately, but they all agree that this is the most responsible thing to do, and they practice the same will all their friends. But of course I continue to go to my relatives, a mandated ban on that would be ridiculous, and they practice responsible social distancing themselves (I trust them on that, otherwise I would have to be afraid to get sick myself). Another thing would be visiting elderly relatives, which should make one consider self restraint.

Nobody is allowed to travel between homes, are you sure? No cars on the street? Which state is that, if I may ask?

Al, you and others are making these choices for yourselves. You are exercising your own judgement and acting according to your own ideas of what you think are best. Personally, I don't visit relatives who live outside my own home. Our audio group stopped meeting, though I stopped going before you did. So, people are behaving differently in different locations. They seem to be using their own judgement to act on their own.

When decisions are made that may harm others, then authorities are increasingly getting involved. In my town, the beaches and popular walking areas have now been shut down completely. Parking lots adjacent to parks and walking trails now have police guarding them to prevent people from parking, and going for walks. This response is increasing, even though there are no restrictions in my local grocery store.

My point is that within states, cities, town, and homes, standards of behavior vary. Some people are advocating for a complete lock down because social distancing does not seem to be strictly followed. It seems to be helping, but people seem to have different opinions about what social distancing is.