neighbor just had a "drive-by" birthday party... fleets of cars honking with ballons.
This discussion about the corona virus epidemic revolves around history of past pandemics and epidemiology of this one, with predictions, opinions and recommendations based on those. You have repeatedly demonstrated that you have little knowledge or expertise in either of those areas, yet you continue to post opinions that you expect to be taken seriously. I am trying to avoid personal attacks, but your posting style make it hard to avoid, since in pointing out the factual errors in your posts I am also unavoidably criticizing you. The solution to this would be for you to stop posting inaccurate and unverifiable "data", and your inaccurate interpretations of reliable data. Unfortunately, I don't expect this to occur.You continue to be an ass!
Now you want to argue future statistics, how do you know if the mortality rate will change?
FYI
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/linear-graph
..they were talking about how back in January many Chinese were entering HK from PRC areas affected by the virus, but due to the extreme 'mask' culture of HK that the spread of the virus even with the influx of infected people was stopped. it's 'normal' for people there to wear masks...
The mortality rate probably won't change (might even decrease), but the number of deaths certainly will increase, also probably exponentially. Any mathematician or statistician will confirm for you that the new cases in Singapore are rising exponentially, not linearly...
Now you want to argue future statistics, how do you know if the mortality rate will change? ...
However, we have not gone to a complete lockdown yet, which is fortunate, IMO.
that sounds like where we are going if we want to have normal freedoms post virus. the virus will still be around. and clearly it can work.
Nice report Steve, we are hearing the same here...stay safe!From what I have read especially in the post yesterday by marty, the use of IL-6 inhibitors seem to be the most promising thing that will show up imminently. There seem to be many anecdotal stories of patients improving after everything else has failed
jaioviera posted yesterday that he has a friend who got worse with Plaquenil and Z-Pack and required intubation until he was given an IL-6 inhibitor and was improving within hours, enough to be extubated BUT he remains on renal dialysis.
I was speaking to my son in law this morning who is a very busy anesthesiologist in the SF Bay area. He enlightened me about several things. First he has used IL-6 inhibitors with good results and he states that these will be showing up in the next few months however the drugs were only made available in limited amounts for purposes of compassionate use. He did tell me the supply ran out almost immediately and over to get it now you have to correspond with the company on a case by case basis and if they make it available it is often too late
He also said that a contraindication is if the patient's serum creatinine is elevated which would suggest renal failure. This takes me back to wondering about jaoviera's friend who obviously has renal failure
My son in law also made the point that the most serious time when the virus is disseminated is at the time of intubation as the fomites are released into the air. As a result unless the OR has negative pressure room ventilation they will not do an intubation under those circumstances due to the high risk of them acquiring the virus. In the ICU the circulation is negative pressure and if a patient with covid requires emergency surgery the intubation is done in the ICU in a hazmat outfit and is then transported to the OR for surgery.
From what I have read vaccines may never prove to be the answer however the feeling is that although a vaccine may not prevent one from getting covid-19 in the future it will hopefully prevent deaths from mitigating development of ARDS.
Presently if one is intubated and on a ventilator for more than 24 hours the death rate is significant.
So the way I see it, the virus is never going to be vanquished in the foreseeable future so by doing what we are doing however by flattening the curve and reducing the number of cases, the hope is that in a few months drugs will be available to minimize the severity of ARDS and organ failure such that there will be far fewer deaths
But the death rate is going to lag the new case rate by up to 3-4 weeks. And it is not a linear trajectory, it an exponential trajectory. Why do you keep displaying your ignorance and expect people to take you seriously?
From what I have read especially in the post yesterday by marty, the use of IL-6 inhibitors seem to be the most promising thing that will show up imminently. There seem to be many anecdotal stories of patients improving after everything else has failed
jaioviera posted yesterday that he has a friend who got worse with Plaquenil and Z-Pack and required intubation until he was given an IL-6 inhibitor and was improving within hours, enough to be extubated BUT he remains on renal dialysis.
I was speaking to my son in law this morning who is a very busy anesthesiologist in the SF Bay area. He enlightened me about several things. First he has used IL-6 inhibitors with good results and he states that these will be showing up in the next few months however the drugs were only made available in limited amounts for purposes of compassionate use. He did tell me the supply ran out almost immediately and over to get it now you have to correspond with the company on a case by case basis and if they make it available it is often too late
He also said that a contraindication is if the patient's serum creatinine is elevated which would suggest renal failure. This takes me back to wondering about jaoviera's friend who obviously has renal failure
My son in law also made the point that the most serious time when the virus is disseminated is at the time of intubation as the fomites are released into the air. As a result unless the OR has negative pressure room ventilation they will not do an intubation under those circumstances due to the high risk of them acquiring the virus. In the ICU the circulation is negative pressure and if a patient with covid requires emergency surgery the intubation is done in the ICU in a hazmat outfit and is then transported to the OR for surgery.
From what I have read vaccines may never prove to be the answer however the feeling is that although a vaccine may not prevent one from getting covid-19 in the future it will hopefully prevent deaths by mitigating development of ARDS.
Presently if one is intubated and on a ventilator for more than 24 hours the death rate is significant.
So the way I see it, the virus is never going to be vanquished in the foreseeable future so by doing what we are doing however by flattening the curve and reducing the number of cases, the hope is that in a few months drugs will be available to minimize the severity of ARDS and organ failure such that there will be far fewer deaths
Now you lecture me and say that I shouldn't post on my own thread anymore while blaming me for you being an ass in the same breath, typical! We're in a subsection of an audio forum not a Scientific Medical one nor was OP about a scientific diagnosis of the corona viruses and their world history. Read the OP! Since you claim to know so much and are full of yourself why haven't you enlightened everyone with your wisdom and knowledge?This discussion about the corona virus epidemic revolves around history of past pandemics and epidemiology of this one, with predictions, opinions and recommendations based on those. You have repeatedly demonstrated that you have little knowledge or expertise in either of those areas, yet you continue to post opinions that you expect to be taken seriously. I am trying to avoid personal attacks, but your posting style make it hard to avoid, since in pointing out the factual errors in your posts I am also unavoidably criticizing you. The solution to this would be for you to stop posting inaccurate and unverifiable "data", and your inaccurate interpretations of reliable data. Unfortunately, I don't expect this to occur.
Unfortunately the kidneys are another organ that produces ACE-2 (kidneys have concentrations of ACE/ACE-2, just like the cardio-pulmonary area - no surprise with the intimate connection of kidneys and blood pressure). There's been some fear about migration of virus to these other sites (including testes as well). I don't know if that's what is happening, but it isn't easy to rule out. It would be nice if ACE-2 could be administered (this has been done in studies) but it's probably 1,000,000x harder to get (make?) than IL-6 inhibitors.
That's pretty brutal that the IL-6 inhibitors aren't being made in big quantities.
We are not out of the woods and yes we only had about 150 cases in total a few weeks ago but then people started coming back from Europe and the US and our infected cases went up. Now we are doing okay with only 11 new cases today with 10 of those 11 having travel history. If it was up to me I would shut the border and we would be at 0 in no time.Despite that, HK is now trying to deal with a huge resurgence of new cases after an apparent lull in the virus activity
i was just listening to a local 'natural medicine' radio talk show my wife listens to every Saturday morning. mostly common sense medical talk......i've heard during breakfast Saturday mornings for years.
https://www.longevitymedicalclinic.com/blog/category/podcasts
they were talking about how back in January many Chinese were entering HK from PRC areas affected by the virus, but due to the extreme 'mask' culture of HK that the spread of the virus even with the influx of infected people was stopped. it's 'normal' for people there to wear masks. and if anyone is ill the whole family will wear masks in the home. that its normal to wear masks in restaurants except when you are eating. then put the mask back on. it's expected and an exception to not wear a mask.
that sounds like where we are going if we want to have normal freedoms post virus. the virus will still be around. and clearly it can work.
That is an almost an infinite slope for the US.A very good site. The graphics come live just with scrolling. Clever presentation but very good information as well.
The graph at the end of the article regarding spread is particularly revealing as to what may very well happen here in the next few months.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-26/coronavirus-covid19-global-spread-data-explained/12089028
From a doctor friend regarding mortality percentages.
https://spectator.us/covid-antibody-test-german-town-shows-15-percent-infection-rate/
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"the interestring part besides the 15% infected rate and case fatality rate of 0.37%
The 15 percent figure from Gangelt is interesting because it matches two previous studies. Firstly, there was the accidental experiment of the cruise ship the Diamond Princess, which inadvertently became a floating laboratory when a passenger showing symptoms of COVID-19 boarded on January 20 and remained in the ship, spreading the virus, for five days. The ship was eventually quarantined on February 3 and all its 3,711 passengers tested for the virus. It turned out the 634 of them — 17 percent — had been infected, many of them without symptoms. The mortality rate on the vessel was 1.2 percent — although, inevitably being a cruise ship, it was a relatively elderly cohort.
We gained another insight into SARS-CoV-2 from a Chinese study into 391 cases of COVID-19 in the southern Chinese city of Shenzhen. In this case, scientists tested everyone who shared a household with people who were found to be suffering from the disease. It turned out 15 percent of this group had gone on to be infected with SARS-CoV-2 themselves. Again, many showed no symptoms.
Obviously these are all small-scale studies and none of them are deliberate experiments to see how far SARS-CoV-2 will spread if it is allowed to ‘rip through’ a population. But they do raise the question: is there a ceiling on the number of people who are prone to be infected with the disease? Do many of us have some kind of natural protection against infection? Would it ever spread among more than about one in six of us?"
david
That is an almost an infinite slope for the US.
There appears to be a somewhat different interpretation of the data:
https://www.technologyreview.com/20...ow-immune-to-covid-19-in-one-town-in-germany/