Time spent blogging on WBF and ROI

[Steve williams]

I subscribe to it. Prescribing it however comes from within

 

[treitz3]

Common courtesy can go a long way, well before the distribution of tolerance pills. Agreeing to disagree is a strong virtue as well.

Tom

 

[Vincent Kars]

I subscribe to it. Prescribing it however comes from within

I see.
Can you prescribe anything to improve my international English

 

[thedudeabides]

I believe that being highly educated and quite successful can foster such behavior. Competitiveness among them is quite common, and "killer instinct" isn't always so easy to turn off.

This is an unprotected environment, and that makes it difficult for some people to drop their guard. They tend to forget that it is just a hobby.

Never thought about it that way.

Seems odd that their education and success may cause them to revert to childish behavior.

I thought it was the other way around but what do I know.

 

[rbbert]

Well I for one am curious about what other audiophile sites are frequented by WBF members. I personally find this one the most intersting of the ones of which I am aware, largely because of the diversity (and quality too, for the most part) of viewpoints present.

I've come fairly late to the audiophile web sites; other than AudioAsylum (which I lost interest in 10+ yrs ago) I was only interested in music sites until about the time I joined here. So the others I tend to view are (in order of interest to me)

SH Forums
Audio Circle
Audio Aficionado
Audiogon

I also know of (but so rarely find anything of interest that I don't sign in often)
Stereophile forums
Audiokarma
Audio Asylum
AVS Forums

 

[ipadasher]

What site is the ROI?

I oftentimes wonder what the ultimate, personal value is regarding time I spend on internet sites such as WBF.

For me, WBF is not my principal audio site but I do find it valuable (read I learn something new) from time to time.

I do admire the intelligence and expertise that members have to offer and I believe it is unique in the internet / audio landscape.

At times, I find that the discussions get so obtuse and rationally incomprehensible that I have to scratch my "going bald" head and ask why.

Other perspectives?

It might help in understanding why things go south on this forum and get fractionalized / personal when there is no need / purpose for that to occur. And it ends up being counter productive to the original discussion at hand.

And yes, I admit I have been guilty as charged from time to time.

GG

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

I used to frequent all of the usual suspects, but in the last few years I only visit and post to:

WBF
SHF

I just browse the others.

Most of my time is taken up with the Blu-ray.com forum as I moderate there. It get pretty crazy over there with reported posts and PM's.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Common courtesy can go a long way, well before the distribution of tolerance pills. Agreeing to disagree is a strong virtue as well.

Tom

Repeating something ad nauseum a million times won't make it any truer than the first time. I get it the first time someone says they are anti-cables, tweaks, tubes, high-end audio, price, etc. You've made your point and move on. Members don't need to hear your objections on every stupid thread.

 

[MylesBAstor]

What site is the ROI?

Return on investment.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Repeating something ad nauseum won't make it any truer than the first time. I get it the first time someone says they are anti-cables, tweaks, tubes, high-end audio, price, etc. You've made your point and move on. I (and others) don't need to hear your objections on every stupid thread.

Perhaps we need a performance based on specs forum.

Let's make it even more elitist than it already is. Sorry Myles I don't share your viewpoint at all. And.......you yourself have often expressed your disdain of vinyl that isn't sourced from the original analogue master. Not once, twice, three times, but many times.

 

[Vincent Kars]

There is something to be said in doing things wrong the exact same way every time.

That is what we call expertise, repeating the same mistakes

 

[MylesBAstor]

Let's make it even more elitist than it already is. Sorry Myles I don't share your viewpoint at all. And.......you yourself have often expressed your disdain of vinyl that isn't sourced from the original analogue master. Not once, twice, three times, but many times.

Actually you took this when I was editing and deleting my response. That said.

It's not a disdain John; it's why the hell won't these companies do their due diligence and reissue from the analog masters? And I will continue (and so should others) demanding better quality from these companies. After all it's What's Best Forum, not what schlock is out there. If demanding quality is a crime, then I'm guilty.

Oh, and I didn't bring it up but responded to your question. And mind you it's based on listening to lots of digital remasters are are just really poorly done and only released so as to jump on the analog bandwagon to make a few bucks. Otherwise why do people hunt down the original pressings? Not to mention the records are cheaply made and suffer from a lot of pressing issues. Just look at the complaints on other forums about the quality of these reissues.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Actually you took this when I was editing and deleting my response. That said.

It's not a disdain John; it's why the hell won't these companies do their due diligence and reissue from the analog masters? And I will continue (and so should others) demanding better quality from these companies. After all it's What's Best Forum, not what schlock is out there. If demanding quality is a crime, then I'm guilty.

Oh, and I didn't bring it up but responded to your question. And mind you it's based on listening to lots of digital remasters are are just really poorly done and only released so as to jump on the analog bandwagon to make a few bucks. Otherwise why do people hunt down the original pressings? Not to mention the records are cheaply made and suffer from a lot of pressing issues. Just look at the complaints on other forums about the quality of these reissues.

This post Myles I can fully agree with. I myself have sent many emails asking about source material, pressing info, etc.....mostly with no response. Pretty sad really and I've often wondered why this is such a secret.

Keep fighting the fight Myles!

 

[thedudeabides]

Gentlemen,

Maybe I was unclear about ROI.

One knows what that means from a financial perspective.

I'm asking what it means from a personal perspective. One's time spent posting and what you wish to accomplish.

Share knowledge and personal experiences. Yup. Educate others as to why something is important. Sure. Express opinions that are consistent with the subjective nature of this hobby. Absolutely. Attack others for their disparate opinions with disdain and disrespect. Not.

Maybe this thread is too ethereal but I think not given the current environment, dysfunctionality, and inability to communicate in a civil, respectful fashion on the WBF forum.

If we can all work through the issues and solutions, I believe WBF will be much the better for the effort.

GG

PS: If one's sole purpose in posting is to be a "consistently" contrarion and, by inference, invite conflict and discord, may I humbly suggest that this behavior is self serving and egotistical and ultimately counter productive to the spirit and intent of the WBF.

 

[RogerD]

It's nice to see all the regulars here and I too take a break,for my sanity. I'm old enough to remember the 50's and although pretty young at that time I was always enamored by sound reproduction. The truth is the future of sound in the home is psychoacoustics and noise mitigation. It really doesn't get much traction at all,because those two things can level the playing field. Audio like everything else has turned into a way to make money. If I were young and wanted to achieve SOTA sound and read this forum, I think I would give up.That is defineatley not the case,I would not be discouraged. I won't get into the objective or subjective debate,but I find the polarity displayed as a turn off,as well as the bias of some. Have I said too much? Atleast you know where I'm coming from.

 

[Bruce B]

And mind you it's based on listening to lots of digital remasters are are just really poorly done and only released so as to jump on the analog bandwagon to make a few bucks. Otherwise why do people hunt down the original pressings? .

It's the same thing when labels used PCM files to jump on the SACD bandwagon!

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

why are a higher percentage of threads more polarized on WBF than most High End Forums? even though many times the same topics get churned over again and again with neither side almost never giving in even a little.

without judging the right or wrong of it, there are more active objectivists as a percentage on WBF than is typical on other High End audio forums I'm familiar with, and those objectivists are quite active and seem to enjoy extending discussions. some of the objectivists followed the founders to WBF from AVS, and then the founders of AVS invited some 'experts' to participate and brought that perspective here.

many times on other forums objectivists get ignored or marginalized and are simply not attracted to those forums as much, and objectivists don't intrude as often or to the same effect. I think since there are enough objectivists on WBF to have some mutual support that this results in the objectivist perspective to remain strong here. and there are quite a few people who 'go both ways' depending on the subject.

I do think that there is a healthy aspect to this issue and it does stimulate a more overall balance to the viewpoints if also causing more angst and aimless meandering and polarization in the process. I also think it puts a damper on some aspects of listening viewpoints from time to time. I have my reservations about some aspects of WBF (not wholely related to the objectivist issue) but I know making everyone happy is impossible. I recently decided to sit out for almost 6 months after getting tired of some things. I came back because it was time for me to do that.

I've said enough (and maybe too much).

I don't think the terms "objectivist" and "subjectivist are really accurate, but they're useful enough; I think we know who they refer to. The better balance between the two camps is the only reason I have to be here. Yes, it causes more angst and polarization. It also causes more meaningful discussion. The net is full of sites where subjectivists rule, and the objective POV is not tolerated. And those sites are filled with threads, many of which can also be found here as well, of mutual agreement on conventional wisdoms. Nothing wrong with that, I just don't find it interesting, so this is the only audio site I frequent.

Is WBF more contentious because there are more "objectivists" here? I don't think so. I can think of more than a couple of subjectivist sites that are war zones, in spite of the fact that they all agree on the basic principles. I think WBF always has a contentious thread or two going because both camps are tolerated. And I think those threads inevitably turn sour because the rules of WBF are not enforced. The line between discussion and personal attack is crossed here all the time. And that, like the two camps, is also tolerated.

Tim

 

[treitz3]

Not entirely true, Tim. The personal attacks are not tolerated. There are many behind the scenes PM's that include warnings and infractions when these types of posts occur. The membership at large do not see any of the behind the scenes actions but trust me when I say that it goes on very frequently. If it continues, more temporary or permanent bans will occur.

Tom

 

[cpp]

Mike,

That's consistent with my experience on the "MLO" site. Can't speak to others since I don't get involved.

GG

ok it's early, what is ROI and MLO sites

 

[Steve williams]

Is WBF more contentious because there are more "objectivists" here? I don't think so. I can think of more than a couple of subjectivist sites that are war zones, in spite of the fact that they all agree on the basic principles. I think WBF always has a contentious thread or two going because both camps are tolerated. And I think those threads inevitably turn sour because the rules of WBF are not enforced. The line between discussion and personal attack is crossed here all the time. And that, like the two camps, is also tolerated.

Not entirely true, Tim. The personal attacks are not tolerated. There are many behind the scenes PM's that include warnings and infractions when these types of posts occur. The membership at large do not see any of the behind the scenes actions but trust me when I say that it goes on very frequently. If it continues, more temporary or permanent bans will occur.

Tom

I agree Tom

In fact Tim, IIRC you were banned several months ago for three days for stirring up crap. Same way you as an objectivist was temporarily banned so also are subjectivists banned for similar acts