To switch or not to switch? Melco S-100 or Innuos Phoenix NET switch?

Frenchrooster

Well-Known Member
Jan 15, 2012
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a little update.
I have investigated, spoken to the Innuos support and tried some different set up with the dealer who send me the Phoenixnet. We discovered that the Innuos switch was giving a wrong ip adress . So logically the app couldn’t find the pieces. But strangely the streamer could play the files if controlled by the remote ( not app). Very strange, even Innuos support guy couldn’t believe.
we tried also to set up fixed ip adresses, but it didn’t worked.
i will receive tomorrow a new item. Finger crossed, as say Brit people.
 

Superdad

Well-Known Member
Apr 22, 2015
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I have investigated, spoken to the Innuos support and tried some different set up with the dealer who send me the Phoenixnet. We discovered that the Innuos switch was giving a wrong ip adress.
An Ethernet switch does not hand out or change IP addresses. Only a router does so. So something is strange there.
 

Frenchrooster

Well-Known Member
Jan 15, 2012
57
33
260
France
An Ethernet switch does not hand out or change IP addresses. Only a router does so. So something is strange there.
If the Melco was connected to the Innuos switch, the ip adress ( written on the screen) of the Melco was beginning by 169..... my ip home network is 192...
But when I connected directly the Melco to the router, the ip adress was the good one, beginning by 192...
So logically the Innuos was doing something wrong, not?
 

hh_miller

New Member
Apr 25, 2021
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If the Melco was connected to the Innuos switch, the ip adress ( written on the screen) of the Melco was beginning by 169..... my ip home network is 192...
But when I connected directly the Melco to the router, the ip adress was the good one, beginning by 192...
So logically the Innuos was doing something wrong, not?
Have you tried a crossover cable between the two switches? Maybe they are not able to negotiate the connection
 

Frenchrooster

Well-Known Member
Jan 15, 2012
57
33
260
France
Have you tried a crossover cable between the two switches? Maybe they are not able to negotiate the connection
The router is connected to the Innuos switch. From Innuos, a lan cable to the Melco. From Melco, another lan cable to the Streamer. Or both Melco and Streamer to the Innuos.
Melco is used as a Nas, it has two ports.
I don’t understand the crossover connection.
 

Frenchrooster

Well-Known Member
Jan 15, 2012
57
33
260
France
Received my new PhoenixNet item. All is working perfectly, the app, and all kinds of connecting. For now I connected both the Melco and Nds to the Innuos. In several days I will compare and see if Nds to Melco or Nds to Innuos sounds better.
i can relax now, after 1 week of hassle.
 

hh_miller

New Member
Apr 25, 2021
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The router is connected to the Innuos switch. From Innuos, a lan cable to the Melco. From Melco, another lan cable to the Streamer. Or both Melco and Streamer to the Innuos.
Melco is used as a Nas, it has two ports.
I don’t understand the crossover connection.

An Ethernet crossover cable is a cable used to connect computing devices together directly. It is most often used to connect two devices of the same type, e.g. two computers (via their network interface controllers) or two switches to each other.
 
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Superdad

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Apr 22, 2015
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If the Melco was connected to the Innuos switch, the ip adress ( written on the screen) of the Melco was beginning by 169..... my ip home network is 192...

The 169 address was one that the Melco assigned to itself—in the absence of a network connection to your router. Computers will self-assign with a 169 address.
 
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Superdad

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Apr 22, 2015
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An Ethernet crossover cable is a cable used to connect computing devices together directly. It is most often used to connect two devices of the same type, e.g. two computers (via their network interface controllers) or two switches to each other.
It has been at least a decade since crossover cables were necessary in Ethernet. The PHYs at the ports take care of that even when going computer-to-computer direct.
 

7ryder

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2015
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originally i was looking for the melco with a pink faun clock. together about 4k.
then you will need 2 extra powersupplys plus 2 extra powercords. that will be a 3 box solution, you may want to add footers and other tweaks.
some do even run 2 melcos in series....
cut the story short, i was not willing and kept waiting. yes the phoenix net is expensive but compared to the melco-plan much cheaper and much more compact.
I have the Melco S100 w/ the Pink Faun clock upgrade powered by two Farad Super3 power supplies. The stock S100 improved the sound of my Linn KDSM/2 and adding the Super3 really raised the bar - better bass definition and appeared to lower the noise floor. I'm really happy with the clock upgrade, it improved on all aspects of things I was hearing prior to the upgrade.

I also have a Melco N10 and it has a LAN player connection. Without the S100, Melco recommends using the player out connection, but the S100 manual recommends going direct to your streamer from the S100. I agree, it sounds better.

FWIW, I had a K50 and an Innuos Statement in the house earlier this year and neither made the improvement in my system's SQ that the S100 did, even when using the K50's and Statement's ethernet direct player output.

I have the new Linn KDSM Organik inbound in the next month or so and it has an SFP slot for fiber, so I'll see how the S100 sounds using copper and fiber.
 

Re-tread

Active Member
Mar 9, 2020
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thx for the report.
well, i did put a phoenix net and also a phoenix usb into the system about 3 weeks ago and really love it.
Greetings Peter Pan,

Congratulations! I recall reading earlier in this thread your were moving towards a PhoenixNET. :)

As a side note: would you mind providing additional details of your system's configuration (at least the digital portion) for full context of your implementation? I am interested in ethernet devices, and the SQ of how multiple ethernet devices can potentially cascade together. I will soon have the following digital front end [ ISO Modem -> eRegen -> PhoenixNET -> Zenith Mk3 -> PhoenixUSB -> DAC ] and am trying to learn what others do have, and learn what they are hearing/experiencing, likewise. For reference, you can see my system's FLOW diagram in post #27 of this thread. Thank you in-advance for considering this request.

Regards,
Re-tread
 

Exlibris

Well-Known Member
Oct 7, 2015
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Canada
systems.audiogon.com
Greetings Peter Pan,

Congratulations! I recall reading earlier in this thread your were moving towards a PhoenixNET. :)

As a side note: would you mind providing additional details of your system's configuration (at least the digital portion) for full context of your implementation? I am interested in ethernet devices, and the SQ of how multiple ethernet devices can potentially cascade together. I will soon have the following digital front end [ ISO Modem -> eRegen -> PhoenixNET -> Zenith Mk3 -> PhoenixUSB -> DAC ] and am trying to learn what others do have, and learn what they are hearing/experiencing, likewise. For reference, you can see my system's FLOW diagram in post #27 of this thread. Thank you in-advance for considering this request.

Regards,
Re-tread
I'm interested to hear what you think of your ISO Modem -> eRegen -> PhoenixNET -> Zenith Mk3 set up.
And also what you think of the eRegen alone vs. PhoenixNET alone.
 
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peter pan

Member
Sep 15, 2020
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in terms of networking, i am a newbie myself.
and my application is more youtube and netflix than dedicated streaming.

i have a noisless pc

and a meitner ma-3 (streamer-dac)

the setup at the moment:
modem---phoenixNET----brentford0125----phoenixUSB----meitner ma-3-----audionet HUMBOLDT-----wilson tunetot

i placed the innuos net and usb direct on the floor, stock powercords and stock usb and ethernet cables. so, no tweaks at the moment at all.
first few days i heard no improvement. then suddenly sound improved. difficult to say what really got better....lets say something like more crystalline. more finesse while not altering anything.
the burn-in seems to be yo-yo...up and down.
 
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Frenchrooster

Well-Known Member
Jan 15, 2012
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The 169 address was one that the Melco assigned to itself—in the absence of a network connection to your router. Computers will self-assign with a 169 address.
Ah ok, thanks. So now I don’t understand how could I play music without network. The Melco was connected to the switch and the Nds to Melco, all in Ethernet cables. I could control the Nds with its remote and it was streaming files from the Melco. I don’t understand.
 

Frenchrooster

Well-Known Member
Jan 15, 2012
57
33
260
France
I have the Melco S100 w/ the Pink Faun clock upgrade powered by two Farad Super3 power supplies. The stock S100 improved the sound of my Linn KDSM/2 and adding the Super3 really raised the bar - better bass definition and appeared to lower the noise floor. I'm really happy with the clock upgrade, it improved on all aspects of things I was hearing prior to the upgrade.

I also have a Melco N10 and it has a LAN player connection. Without the S100, Melco recommends using the player out connection, but the S100 manual recommends going direct to your streamer from the S100. I agree, it sounds better.

FWIW, I had a K50 and an Innuos Statement in the house earlier this year and neither made the improvement in my system's SQ that the S100 did, even when using the K50's and Statement's ethernet direct player output.

I have the new Linn KDSM Organik inbound in the next month or so and it has an SFP slot for fiber, so I'll see how the S100 sounds using copper and fiber.
If I understand correctly, you found that it better sounding when the KDSM is connected to the S100 vs to the direct Ethernet port of the N10? It’s that ?
 

7ryder

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2015
43
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113
Yes - the KDSM sounds better when connected to one of the S100's 4 ports rated at 100MbE speeds which are optimized for audio devices.

Some people have reported dropouts on hi-res files when using it this way, but it works fine with the KDSM.

However, my Trinnov Amethyst is also a Roon endpoint and, while I don't listen to it as an endpoint, when I first bought the S100 I did try using it instead of the KDSM and did experience the dropouts when using one of the 1000MbE ports and had to switch to one of the 1GbE ports which stopped the droputs.

To summarize, the KDSM is connected to one of the 100MbE ports. My Melco N10, Amethyst and dedicated Roon server are all connected to the S100 via the 1000MbE ports
 
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Re-tread

Active Member
Mar 9, 2020
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I'm interested to hear what you think of your ISO Modem -> eRegen -> PhoenixNET -> Zenith Mk3 set up.
And also what you think of the eRegen alone vs. PhoenixNET alone.
Greetings Exlibris,

To refresh the context of my use-case, this is my "current" and "future" states of my digital set-up:

* Current: ISP Modem (JS-2 LPS) -> eRegen (JS-2 LPS) -> Innuos Zenith Mk3 -> PhoenixUSB -> Blue Circle DAC (custom)
* Future: ISP Modem (JS-2 LPS) -> eRegen (JS-2 LPS) -> PhoenixNET -> Innuos Zenith Mk3 -> PhoenixUSB -> Blue Circle DAC (custom)

All signal cabling above is from FTA (Final Touch Audio, a small purveyor from Serbia). Their ethernet cable model is called "Metis"; and their USB cable model is called "Callisto". I believe they are on par similar to the likes of Sablon and/or Shunyata... from reports I have read.

I can report the eRegen employed now (in the current state) brings a very positive sonic uplift to my digital front end. My hope is that the eRegen will positively cascade in combination with the (future state) PhoenixNET, when inserted. I will have to be patient to let the PhoenixNET fully break in (~ 450 hours or so) before final system assessment. Fingers crossed the combination with be better than either alone.

So I am now eagerly committed, as I have recently ordered my PhoenixNET (i.e., paid my Innuos dealer), so now I am just waiting on the production/delivery. The lead time is uncertain, but will be clarified soon, as Innuos told me there may be a delay in the supply chain. It could potentially be 2 to 5 weeks before I receive it. Either way, no problem. :cool:

On a sidenote: I have been a distant, long-time admirer of your system on AG. It is very beautiful, indeed. All of your equipment looks like it has great "intention". And I love your architectural back wall, and the low stance of your equipment in your room. I remember when you had an AN M6 preamp, (I think) AN speakers, and your equipment was stacked on uneven wooden blocks. Your system has evolved quite a bit since then. Your Thomas Mayer equip must be simply amazing (spellbinding, is the word that comes to mind).

Re-tread
 

Re-tread

Active Member
Mar 9, 2020
43
41
25
in terms of networking, i am a newbie myself.
and my application is more youtube and netflix than dedicated streaming.

i have a noisless pc

and a meitner ma-3 (streamer-dac)

the setup at the moment:
modem---phoenixNET----brentford0125----phoenixUSB----meitner ma-3-----audionet HUMBOLDT-----wilson tunetot

i placed the innuos net and usb direct on the floor, stock powercords and stock usb and ethernet cables. so, no tweaks at the moment at all.
first few days i heard no improvement. then suddenly sound improved. difficult to say what really got better....lets say something like more crystalline. more finesse while not altering anything.
the burn-in seems to be yo-yo...up and down.
Greetings Peter Pan,

Thank you for sharing your set-up and implementation details. It helps for "seeing" the full context when reading valuable feedback. Thank you! Congratulations on the PhoenixNET and PhoenixUSB are working so well for you in tandem.

Also, when you get around to upgrading the "stock" ethernet and USB cables, you should get another noticeable uplift in SQ. I suspect you will get another positive uplift when you upgrade the PC's, as well. When you are ready, I would suggest start at the weakest link.

Have a great weekend.

Re-tread
 
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Re-tread

Active Member
Mar 9, 2020
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Received my new PhoenixNet item. All is working perfectly, the app, and all kinds of connecting. For now I connected both the Melco and Nds to the Innuos. In several days I will compare and see if Nds to Melco or Nds to Innuos sounds better.
i can relax now, after 1 week of hassle.
Greetings Frenchrooster,

Delighted your connections are finally working. We all learned a little bit from your snafu, albeit a little difficult to follow the discussion at times. Glad to know your supporters (dealer and Innuos) helped to resolve the erroneous PhoenixNET exhibiting the wrong IP Address.

When ready, please provide your feedback on the sonic uplift from the 'working' PhoenixNET. Some say it will take ~450 hours for the Mundorf caps and toroidal LPS to fully break-in. Thanks!

Re-tread
 
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