To switch or not to switch? Melco S-100 or Innuos Phoenix NET switch?

[Re-tread]

Report Update (continued from entry #131 above): Greetings all. I have now done some initial testing of A-B-A Test 2, so I will re-iterate the digital baseline again for clarity:

New 'Current State' of Digital Front-End: ISP Modem (JS-2 LPS) -> eRegen (JS-2 LPS) -> PhoenixNET -> Zenith Mk3 -> PhoenixUSB -> BC-515 DAC

A-B-A Test 2: I will now remove the eRegen (now with 245-hours of PN break-in) from the baseline, to determine what SQ impact the eRegen brings to the PN, when cascading them both in series.

A-B-A Test 2 Itinerary: (- eRegen)
A - eRegen + PN
B - minus eRegen (leaving PN only)
A - eRegen + PN

Going to "B": So, here are my listening notes after pulling the eRegen out of current state, leaving the PN inserted: Music is flatter in COLOR ; Soundscape is flatter (less depth, less 3 dimensional in the 'z' direction); Less spooky moments; Less "out of pure darkness" feeling. Less "naturalness" - in the sense of: less flow, less dynacism, less force of life. Less dynamics. Flatter. Sound more like a "recording"; less lifelike in my system.

Going back to "A": So, I inserted the eRegen (w/ JS-2 LPS) back into the "Current State" and the SQ returned back to my new baseline: Music has better ("realer") dynamics, more spooky moments, more jump factor, music has better drive, better dynamics, more COLOR, more depth - in the "z" scale (deeper soundscape); more pure "out of darkness" moments; more "real", ….more Life. Because all the above, I would say it also has enables better PRAT and music intra-cohesion in the melody as a whole.

Conclusion: "A" is the clear the Winner for me (YMMV), in my current system: cascading the eRegen (w/ JS-2 LPS) -> PhoenixNET. At this time, the eRegen (with JS-2 LPS) is deemed to still be adding a positive sonic uplift when used with (ahead of) the PN, and (for me in my system), positively adding to the final sound being delivered. In fact, if this sonic uplift went missing, I would be missing it a lot.

I did multiple A-B'ing between A and B during this test, across various songs for various durations. Here are some tracks I listened to, all red-book streaming via Qobuz:

Rising Sons - Rising Sons - "By and By", "2:10 Train”
Junior Wells - Hoodoo Man Blues - "In the Wee Hours", "Ships on the Ocean"
Natalie Merchant - Ophelia - "Kind & Generous", "Life is Sweet"
Buddy Guy - Blues Singer - "Can't See Baby"
Boz Scaggs - Dig - "Thanks to You"
Led Zeppelin - II - "What Is and What Should Never Be"
Bill Evans - Another Time - "Nardis", "Who Can I Turn To?", "Emily", and many other wonderful tracks on this amazing album.


Hope this initial feedback from Test 2 will be fruitful (or applicable) to some of your use-cases. As the saying goes, YMMV.

I will report back on Test 1 in a week or so, after the PN fully breaks-in. Also, the Test 1 requires more stretching behind the system to access the cables, so it won't be as easy as today's test.

I realize my testing does not include the S100 use-case (and I hear the S100+PF is supposed to be amazing); however, perhaps this test lends to "another positive report" that cascading switches in series (in this case, the eRegen -> PhoenixNET) can bring positive sonic uplift. As they say, you must try for yourself; but, for me, it was beneficial.

Re-tread

 

[Gunnar]

Great feedback. I am happy for you @Re-tread that you are pleased with your upgrade.

My findings earlier also showed that 2 switches gave a better sound than one. I have had my PF 100 for a month and must say it’, at least for me, it’s a big step up from just ER/Super3. I took away the ER/Super3 a week ago and will put it back next week for a comparison of what it add. . My first feeing is that the ER/Super3 does not “hurt” in the chain at all. As you say. Give me a week and I will come back.

What I can add is that for me it sounds better to have the PF S100 between my Melco N1Z and my streamer/DAC Naim ND555 and not as Melco recommend using the lan port on the N1Z to connect to the S100.

Different subject but interesting. A friend of me had the opportunity to listen to the new Melco ADOT optical with a S100 at his dealer and then at home. He said for that price a “no brainier”. As I understand (no expert) is that ADOT also sell or will sell an additional box to them who doesn’t have optic SFTP. So it could work for all of us. Maybe next trial for me? Crazy life. Isn’t it?

Gunnar

 

[Frenchrooster]

I tried to add the ER/ Mcru to the PhoenixNet. The PhoenixNet had 1 week burn in at that time.
i found the sound less well balanced, a bit exaggerated.
Then I sold the ER/ ps and I enjoy having only one box.
after 4 weeks now, I still prefer to connect my streamer ( Naim Nds) to the direct lan of the Melco N1zh2.
the Melco itself is connected to the Phoenix, and the Phoenix to the router.
i use 3X audioquest diamond Ethernet cables.
My system have never sounded so good. The PhoenixNet is really something.
my Melco lan port is acting as a second switch. I bought an Entreq power cord to the Phoenix.
in some weeks, I will try again to connect both to the PN. As the burn in is very long.

 

[Re-tread]

Great feedback. I am happy for you @Re-tread that you are pleased with your upgrade.

My findings earlier also showed that 2 switches gave a better sound than one. I have had my PF 100 for a month and must say it’, at least for me, it’s a big step up from just ER/Super3. I took away the ER/Super3 a week ago and will put it back next week for a comparison of what it add. . My first feeling is that the ER/Super3 does not “hurt” in the chain at all. As you say. Give me a week and I will come back.

What I can add is that for me it sounds better to have the PF S100 between my Melco N1Z and my streamer/DAC Naim ND555 and not as Melco recommend using the lan port on the N1Z to connect to the S100.

Different subject but interesting. A friend of me had the opportunity to listen to the new Melco ADOT optical with a S100 at his dealer and then at home. He said for that price a “no brainier”. As I understand (no expert) is that ADOT also sell or will sell an additional box to them who doesn’t have optic SFTP. So it could work for all of us. Maybe next trial for me? Crazy life. Isn’t it?

Gunnar

Greetings Gunnar,

Thank you for your kind words, and for providing your valuable multi-switch feedback with your Melco and Naim use-case. Unfortunately for me, I am a bit myopic, in such that I am only (or mostly) familiar with employment with the Innuos equipment; and thus, in contrast, I am unfamiliar with the Melco N1Z and Naim ND55 equipment, other than by their fine reputation each. From what I can ascertain from your entries above, you are currently running:

Current State: Melco N1Z (via lan port out) -> S100+PF (in place of ER/Super3) -> Naim ND555

and you want to try (or clarify where needed):

Trial State: ER/Super3 -> Melco N1Z (via lan port out) -> S100+PF (in place of ER/Super3) -> Naim ND555

I am just trying to clarify the above, because full context helps provide a clear understanding of your use-case. Let us know how your Trail State testing goes, when convenient. Your feedback could be interesting/informative.

Re-tread

P.S. - By chance, do you intend to try the PhoenixNET in the future?

 

[Re-tread]

I tried to add the ER/ Mcru to the PhoenixNet. The PhoenixNet had 1 week burn in at that time.
i found the sound less well balanced, a bit exaggerated.
Then I sold the ER/ ps and I enjoy having only one box.
after 4 weeks now, I still prefer to connect my streamer ( Naim Nds) to the direct lan of the Melco N1zh2.
the Melco itself is connected to the Phoenix, and the Phoenix to the router.
i use 3X audioquest diamond Ethernet cables.
My system have never sounded so good. The PhoenixNet is really something.
my Melco lan port is acting as a second switch. I bought an Entreq power cord to the Phoenix.
in some weeks, I will try again to connect both to the PN. As the burn in is very long.

Greetings Frenchrooster,

It sounds like you tried the following (clarify where needed):

ER/Mcru -> PhoenixNET -> Melco N1zH2 -> Naim NDS

But, you discovered that when the ER/Mcru was added (in the above), it seemed a bit exaggerated; and you preferred the sound w/o the ER/Mcru. Did I get that right?

By the way, what is Mcru? I suspect that is a LPS. Can you elaborate on the make & model name? Thank you!

On a trangental note, I believe both you and @Gunnar are both using Melco -> Naim, but, with different kit (or not) before Melco, and then in-between (or not) to your Naim. Interesting..!

Re-tread

 

[Gunnar]

I just got back from Paris. Life is back there. Bars etc…. Great!!

You are right in Current and Trial State. Need a week to evaluate.

Yes, frenchrooster and myself we both have Melco and Naim. I have just Naim electronics. I think Frenchrooster has a mixture.

I bought my Melco summer 2016. I wanted to have something simple which sounded good. Not a lot on the market then. I am pleased with it. I am sure Innuos also makes really good products. Great reputation.

My S100 is between the Streamer/Dac and the Melco. Frenchrooster has before the Melco. For me my way sounded better. Melco recommend another setup. Using the S100 as a “switch” between the streamer/Dac, the Melco and the router.

To evaluate what sounded best as setup I used mainly a track from Silje Nergaard and her album Japanese Blue and the track “Love of my life” (acoustic version). I have exactly the same version in the Melco bought from HighRes audio as the one in Qobuz (96/24). Just ensure it’s the acoustic version.

In my setup (between) I don’t here the difference between the two sources (Melco and Qobuz). With the Melco proposal I hear (my wife also so “confirmed”) a difference in favour of Qobuz. Putting the S100 before I felt it less good than between but no difference between Melco and Qobuz. Maybe the reason that between is best for me is that my S100 is modified by Pink Faun and it improves on what ever is before. Just a guess.

My intention is not to try PhoenixNet. But I will try optical when I get the opportunity.


Gunnar

 

[Re-tread]

Greetings Gunnar,

Delighted to hear small businesses and social activities are opening back up in Paris. My wife is a Parisian, so I forwarded your reconnaissance report to her. Her family is mostly in Cannes now, so the family currently has limited travel to/from Paris, unless for a specific reason or occasion. Too far away now, and too expensive (compared to the old days ). When all the family is down South, the reasons to go to Paris get fewer and fewer.

Yes, wife's provide that essential feedback sometimes, as they (females) are supposed to have better hearing than men (on average). And, they can help break our (the men's) potential "false positive" placebo effect when making system changes. Also, it could be a welcome occasion to break-out some wine and cheese, perhaps some saucisson (diet permitting), and do some listening together .

I hear the S100+PF is supposed to be really nice. What LPS do you have supporting it (the Farad Super3, or other)?

Trial State: ER/Super3 -> Melco N1Z (via lan port out) -> S100+PF (in place of ER/Super3) -> Naim ND555

When convenient, let us know how your Trial State testing goes. No rush. What you find/discover should be helpful for others.

Re-tread

 

[Gunnar]

Wife’s as references helps. For them it’s a true blind test. Easy for us to be influenced by awareness.

Paris is lovely to visit. My son and daughter lives there. My son will leave for Lausanne this autumn . His Master.

Yes, I have the Super3. Three of them.Two of them for the PF S100 and one for the ER. All three has the Furutech inlet and the Orange fuse. DC cables the Farad Silver. When choosing LPS there are some good ones on the market but not all of them are CE certificated. For us living in EU I think it’s important to choose a CE certificated product.

When I got my PF S100 I installed it “between” and put the ER before the Melco. Two weeks later I took out the PF S100 and used just the ER as prior the PF S100. The intention was to listen for a few hours with a few tracks from the Melco and from Qobuz. Took me just a few minutes swapping around tracks to realise that it was a huge difference in favour of the PF S100. As forum members who have tried the PF S100 and compared to other switches. “More of everything” in a positive way. For me difficult to explain with words. After 10 minutes or so I put the PF S100 back in. Prior the PF S100 i felt that the ER/Super3 gave an outstanding result. So ……

Have in mind I can not compare to a S100 or to a PhoenixNet. “Just” to an ER/Super3. Maybe not a far comparison as its a price difference of 4-5 times.

Gunnar

 

[Frenchrooster]

Greetings Frenchrooster,

It sounds like you tried the following (clarify where needed):

ER/Mcru -> PhoenixNET -> Melco N1zH2 -> Naim NDS

But, you discovered that when the ER/Mcru was added (in the above), it seemed a bit exaggerated; and you preferred the sound w/o the ER/Mcru. Did I get that right?

By the way, what is Mcru? I suspect that is a LPS. Can you elaborate on the make & model name? Thank you!

On a trangental note, I believe both you and @Gunnar are both using Melco -> Naim, but, with different kit (or not) before Melco, and then in-between (or not) to your Naim. Interesting..!

Re-tread

Sorry for the late response.
MCRU is indeed an lps, made by MCRU UK.
Gunnar and I have both a Naim streamer, and same Melco server/ Nas.
my chain: Router > ER/ lps > Phoenix > Melco > Naim Nds. And same chain, but with only the Phoenix.
as the Melco is used as a Nas, I find it logical to isolate it from noise. So the Melco in my chain is not directly connected to the noisy router, but the Phoenix.
the Melco has 2 lan ports. One is for a direct connection to the streamer.

Gunnar chain: Router > Melco > ER > Melco S100 switch > Naim Nd555.
for me that kind of connection is not logical.
however it’s Gunnar experience. I can’t try it because I have not enough length of Ethernet Audioquest diamond to connect the Melco and the router.
i would be very very surprised if that sounds better. But can’t agree or deny.

 

[Gunnar]

Isn’t the beauty with being an audiophile. Different opinions. No one is right no one is wrong. But respect. Personal preferences and also I guess that all our setups are slightly different or probably even more different. My recommendation is to put in the switch in different places and listen. Then decide.

My homework - PF S100/Super3 with or without ER/Super3. Then the ER before my Melco streamer or between as the PF S100 is installed was suppose to happened last Saturday. After the dinner, I took a glass of red wine with me from the table. Sat down and then ….. the rain went to just heavy rain with hard wind over to a heavy thunderstorm. We lost power for a short time. Nothing damaged. So that was that. A new heavy thunderstorm Sunday and several others smaller over the last few days. Never seen something like this in Alsace before.

Right now I have the ER/Super3 before the Melco. The PF S100 betwen the streamer and the Melco. It sounds really good. But can it be better for me? Don’t know..

Gunnar

 

[Exlibris]

I'm using the Network Acoustics "ENO Ethernet Filter Ag" and "ENO Streaming Cable Ag". Both are wonderful products. At the advice of the manufacturer I added a D-Link DGS105 -- with my preferred linear power supply (between the router and the EVO). It's a fantastic upgrade. The addition was similar to what I heard when I put in the EVO cable, and later the EVO Filter: everything is much more tangible, strong, full-bodied, and grounded. I can also hear deeper into the mix for more musical information because everything is more articulate and free of distortion -- distortion that I didn't even know was there. Finally, everything is more musical in terms of flow, naturalness, and emotion.

 

[Rejean]

I installed an "Eno AG" ethernet filter directly at the ethernet input of my dCS Rossini + Master Clock. Incredible, what purity! I confirm, everything is more musical and more tangible. It's hard to believe. Upstream I use two SOtM sNH-10G switches in series which connect to a Roon Nucleus and the Rossini DAC. The two switch and the Roon Nucleus are powered by Farad Super3s. From the Netgear router to the Rossini DAC, all RJ/E cables are Audioquest Diamond.

 

[Gunnar]

Eno AG sounds realy interesting, Saw that the price is around 1100 Euro. So …. For an audiophile reasonable. I know hardly anything of the technical aspects of routers, switches etc. So I have a question.

The ENO AG “remove interference” compared to the Melco ADOT with a fibre cable “galvanic isolation”. Are they complementary or is just one needed? Maybe a stupid question but……

Gunnar

 

[belancer]

Melco ADOT is just an OEM (renamed) item with no audiophile grade part inside.
You'd better buy any same FMC eslewhere with much cheaper price.

 

[ST Francis]

Melco ADOT is just an OEM (renamed) item with no audiophile grade part inside.
You'd better buy any same FMC eslewhere with much cheaper price.

I think that you are right. I have a KSM FMC bought in Australia that is physically identical externally. In side almost the same.

 

[nonesup]

Finally a month ago I bought an Innuos PhoenixNext to add to my upgraded Melco S-100 PF. After quite a few tests, I have decided that I am left with only the Melco in the system. If anyone is interested in an Innuos PhoenixNext 230V with a month of use and a very good discount, send me a PM.

 

[nonesup]

Innuos SOLD

 

[zitas]

Innuos SOLD

what made you selling it? you didnt like it?

 

[nonesup]

I preferred the sound only with the Melco

 

[Jeffy]

Did you think the Innuos had a darker presentation?