Tube gear obsolete??

[DaveyF]

Dear DaveyF: I read it your posts and other gentlemans posts on the thread's subject and I wonder why we music lovers are questioning if the SS technology could sometime " sound better or equal to what tube amps " or the other way around because we can ask for it too ( why not? ).




No one tube amp can do it and it's not because amp design failures but because a tube technology failure/drawbacks. So what are we listening trhough our speakers that are runned by a tube amp ( any )?: heavy and higher distortions with high frequency deviations. Frequency deviations and distortions that are not on the LP or in the CD. Yes all the tube advocates are accustom and like those high distortions but unfortunatelly even that you like it what you are hearing is wrong and can't honor the LP/CD what's in the recording.

SS technology provide low output impedance on amps and phonolinestage preamps with no frequency deviations/colorations. Yes, there are other SS advantages too.

That " tube magic " that you like does not exist, what exist are very high distortions that you like it/you are accustom but IMHO are plain wrong and certainly can't honor the LIVE MUSIC Reference.


Today has no sense to me that some speakers that have a complex and very hard to handle impedance/phase curve as Wilson/YGA/TAD been running through tube amps and that the owners and the owner's friends be satisfied with those very high distortions and trumpeted that " lovely experience ".

No one of us has the culprit that all those still today is happening and that we are " suffering " that. Problem is that we audio customers are ignorant about because no one informed us: no one of the audio dealers, no one of the profesional audio reviewers and almost no one audio manufacturer.

IMHO all them are the responsables that we stay with our " eyes closed ". The pity and sad subject is that IMHO all of them has a main responsability with we customers and this responsability MEANS to mantain informed, with the true and hidden nothing, to we all audio customers and they did not

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

silviajulieta, I think you are showing a bias towards ss gear. While I think most if not all members here would agree with your statement that we need to compare our systems to the "absolute sound" or "live unamplified music", I do NOT think your thoughts on why tube gear is preferred by some member's, including myself, is entirely accurate.
I DO NOT believe that we prefer the distortions that tube gear supposedly gives off when connected to the speaker's that you mention. I recently had the pleasure of hearing fellow member Steve William's system, with his Wilsons and Lamm amps. I can tell you that IMHO IF there were any distortion to be heard it was certainly NOT coming from the Lamm amps. If anything, the Lamm tube gear was perhaps the biggest strength in Steve's system. A very nice synergy with his Wilson speakers.
Your comments actually make me question whether you have heard some of the better tube gear that is on the market connected with appropriate speakers.

 

[silviajulieta]

silviajulieta, I think you are showing a bias towards ss gear. While I think most if not all members here would agree with your statement that we need to compare our systems to the "absolute sound" or "live unamplified music", I do NOT think your thoughts on why tube gear is preferred by some member's, including myself, is entirely accurate.
I DO NOT believe that we prefer the distortions that tube gear supposedly gives off when connected to the speaker's that you mention. I recently had the pleasure of hearing fellow member Steve William's system, with his Wilsons and Lamm amps. I can tell you that IMHO IF there were any distortion to be heard it was certainly NOT coming from the Lamm amps. If anything, the Lamm tube gear was perhaps the biggest strength in Steve's system. A very nice synergy with his Wilson speakers.
Your comments actually make me question whether you have heard some of the better tube gear that is on the market connected with appropriate speakers.

Dear DaveyF: I'm not against tubes but in favor or MUSIC. Things happened that for many years I used tube technology and step by step through those years I started to learn about and started to learn on SS technology. Of course that I already heard Lamm amps and several other top tube audio items surrounded by top top gear.

IMHO that's not the subject. Your opinion ( " I DO NOT believe " . ) on what you or any one of us can hear on a combo as the W/L one is not important but, as I posted, what's right or wrong.

Certainly and there is no doubt about that what you enjoyed there where those high distortions/colorations and nothing wrong with that you like it but that you like it does not means is right because it's not.

DaveyF, unfortunatelly we can't change the Ohm Law. Lamm SETs has really high output impedance that goes ( model to model ) from 0.84 ohms to 3+ Ohms that combined with the speaker electrical impedance/phase curve produce so high frequency deviations that you even can't imagine.

Now, why can't you aware of?, because through so many years you ( as many of us ) you are accustomed to those kind of high distortions even when you heard accurate system you don't like it because does not has that high distortion levels you are accustom to. Our ears are already equalized.

I don't know if any one of you remember years ago a review in Stereophile of a Wavac tube " state of the art " amp design ( eight chasis ) with a price around the 300K dollars that because its high output impedance the frequency deviation in some frequency range was 10db ( and I think that with a true speaker load that deviation could be even higher because in the Stereophile measurements the measure is taken with a constant load impedance and not with a real speaker impedance curve!!!!. ) and even that the reviewer trumpeted that amp because he was not aware of those higher distortions. So, that's exactly what happen with you and with almost all the today tube electronic owners.

That's a fact it does not matters if we like it or not. DaveyF, do you think that we all are living in a perfect audio world????!!!!!!!!

This single subject is only one of the " problems " real problems that surround our " perfect " audio world and as we ( step by step ) learn more and more the disappointment grow-up but the good news are that through that step by step learning we can learn what is really right to start to improve our MUSIC enjoyment with true facts other than that wrong/subjective: " I like it ".

Sooner or latter almost all of us will: wake-up, for the better ( I hope?. ).


DaveyF, IMHO unfortunatelly there is no arguments against that Ohm Law and other critical issues down there.

In the other side, you ask and my opinion is my answer to you. You disagree with but your disagreements IMHO has no foundation other that that: " I DO NOT believe ", but IMHO we are not here to " believe this or believe that " but to analize what's right or wrong.

Now, you don't like it the real audio life and I can understand it and I can understand too that you decide to follow living inside an " unreal fantasy ", this is your privilege.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Well even M fremer who certainly has gone through tons of gear and owns top SS ( SS i hate the name ) admitted that he also regards SET as being able to sound top notch taken from the interview :

A fellow in Greece who was kind enough to fly me over to hear his system. Enormous Cessaro horns, custom made, driven by Audio Note SET amps, Continuum Caliburn, Ypsilon preamp and phono preamp DCS digital. The key was an enormous listening room, custom built and treated. The room has a balcony!!!!! It produced a life-sized picture that was coherent, transparent, musical and believable as no other system in my experience has matched. Mine is great, but in miniature. I'm in a relatively small room. It's enveloping and creates a good illusion but his illusion was on a scale you'd have to hear to believe.

nice interview by the way http://www.monoandstereo.com/2013/06/exclusive-interview-with-michael-fremer.html
I have to go with davey in this case and suspect you have listened to mismatched gear.
Ive done a comparison between SET and (krell) Boulder for the past year on the same speakers (important) and i have to admit while they both have qualities /strong points , Set still has some virtues SS has a hard time reaching to.
Room fill /big picture , fullness of the bass freq, trumpet dynamics , plus not the hard controlled sound of SS which in my mind is not natural, regarding freq deviations, iirc set or ss are both within +- 0,1 db on a 20 hz 20 khz scale

Please note i use off course high eff / high impedance LS , believe me if there would be a 10 db fluctuation somewhere on the scale , i would hear it immediately .
I will measure it in the future anyway with the zanden , normally for measuring i use a cheap 10 watt hawk audio ss amp no 10 db deviations there and i am 100 % sure also not with the Zanden a 10 db 12 db fluctuation is immediately heard

 

[DaveyF]

Dear DaveyF: I'm not against tubes but in favor or MUSIC. Things happened that for many years I used tube technology and step by step through those years I started to learn about and started to learn on SS technology. Of course that I already heard Lamm amps and several other top tube audio items surrounded by top top gear.

IMHO that's not the subject. Your opinion ( " I DO NOT believe " . ) on what you or any one of us can hear on a combo as the W/L one is not important but, as I posted, what's right or wrong.

Certainly and there is no doubt about that what you enjoyed there where those high distortions/colorations and nothing wrong with that you like it but that you like it does not means is right because it's not.

DaveyF, unfortunatelly we can't change the Ohm Law. Lamm SETs has really high output impedance that goes ( model to model ) from 0.84 ohms to 3+ Ohms that combined with the speaker electrical impedance/phase curve produce so high frequency deviations that you even can't imagine.

Now, why can't you aware of?, because through so many years you ( as many of us ) you are accustomed to those kind of high distortions even when you heard accurate system you don't like it because does not has that high distortion levels you are accustom to. Our ears are already equalized.

I don't know if any one of you remember years ago a review in Stereophile of a VAC tube " state of the art " amp design ( four chasis ) with a price around the 200K dollars that because its high output impedance the frequency deviation in some frequency range was 10db-12dbs and even that the reviewer trumpeted that amp because he was not aware of those higher distortions. So, that's exactly what happen with you and with almost all the today tube electronic owners.

That's a fact it does not matters if we like it or not. DaveyF, do you think that we all are living in a perfect audio world????!!!!!!!!

This single subject is only one of the " problems " real problems that surround our " perfect " audio world and as we ( step by step ) learn more and more the disappointment grow-up but the good news are that through that step by step learning we can learn what is really right to start to improve our MUSIC enjoyment with true facts other than that wrong/subjective: " I like it ".

Sooner or latter almost all of us will: wake-up, for the better ( I hope?. ).


DaveyF, IMHO unfortunatelly there is no arguments against that Ohm Law and other critical issues down there.

In the other side, you ask and my opinion is my answer to you. You disagree with but your disagreements IMHO has no foundation other that that: " I DO NOT believe ", but we are not here to " believe this or believe that " but to analize facts.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Silviajulieta, IF I'm reading and understanding your post correctly, and I believe I am, you are saying that my hearing ability isn't acute enough to hear distortions in tube gear BUT that yours is!
You my friend, need to seriously re-think your position. As a little back-ground on who I am, I have taught guitar and have been a pro musician ( studio) on and off for nearly
forty years. I suspect I could hear IF all tube gear was eliciting such distortions in the musical realm as you profess to hear! BTW, do you have this kind of musical background?
The only other explanation ( If I give you the benefit of the doubt) is that you must have heard a mis-matched tube piece with the gear that you heard... as andromeda audio said above....
That has to be it, right

 

[silviajulieta]

Well even M fremer who certainly has gone through tons of gear and owns top SS ( SS i hate the name ) admitted that he also regards SET as being able to sound top notch taken from the interview :

A fellow in Greece who was kind enough to fly me over to hear his system. Enormous Cessaro horns, custom made, driven by Audio Note SET amps, Continuum Caliburn, Ypsilon preamp and phono preamp DCS digital. The key was an enormous listening room, custom built and treated. The room has a balcony!!!!! It produced a life-sized picture that was coherent, transparent, musical and believable as no other system in my experience has matched. Mine is great, but in miniature. I'm in a relatively small room. It's enveloping and creates a good illusion but his illusion was on a scale you'd have to hear to believe.

nice interview by the way http://www.monoandstereo.com/2013/06/exclusive-interview-with-michael-fremer.html
I have to go with davey in this case and suspect you have listened to mismatched gear.
Ive done a comparison between SET and (krell) Boulder for the past year on the same speakers (important) and i have to admit while they both have qualities /strong points , Set still has some virtues SS has a hard time reaching to.
Room fill /big picture , fullness of the bass freq, trumpet dynamics , plus not the hard controlled sound of SS which in my mind is not natural, regarding freq deviations, iirc set or ss are both within +- 0,1 db on a 20 hz 20 khz scale

Please note i use off course high eff / high impedance LS , believe me if there would be a 10 db fluctuation somewhere on the scale , i would hear it immediately .
I will measure it in the future anyway with the zanden , normally for measuring i use a cheap 10 watt hawk audio ss amp no 10 db deviations there and i am 100 % sure also not with the Zanden a 10 db 12 db fluctuation is immediately heard

Dear Andromedaaudio: Only for your records. The reviewer that could not be aware of that so high frequency tube amp deviation was the gentleman that appears on that interview you linked.


+++ " fullness of the bass freq, trumpet dynamics " ++++???? , so these are strong tube characteristics, at least what you think.

What you mean with fullness and trumpet dynamics? and what you mean with: " hard controlled sound of SS " ?, could you explain for I can understand it and try to give you an answer?

Thank you in advance.


++++ " regarding freq deviations, iirc set or ss are both within +- 0,1 db on a 20 hz 20 khz scale " +++++ ( from your answer to Tomelex. )

That means almost nothing because what is the subject is under speaker load.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Tomelex
Zanden 7000 (300 B )stereo and my own voyager model , the other new model is still under construction .
when i say +- 0,1 db i mean of course only the amp measured , no speaker that i know of stays within that range

 

[microstrip]

Micro, I'm curious to know what ancillary gear you were using when you owned your D70.

I have owned the D70 twice - first with an SP8 and SP10, using turntable as a source, and owning ESL63 and the small SoundLab A2x. Much later using an ARC LS5 mk3 , ESL 63 and for sometime a B&W 802 Matrix series 3, that I re-listen from time to time in friend system. The voices and rhythm of the D70/B&W802 were great. Sources by that time were mainly an Audio Synthesis by Ben Duncan combo and the Forsell CD Air Transport with the matching DAC. After that period I entered a Cello phase. Great times!

 

[andromedaaudio]

Rauliruegas
Well if you hear it you will know , regarding fullness of bass i can best explain it when a large orchestral work is played or an organ , the zanden fills the whole room and has the ability to give a natural weight to the presentation its also incredibly transparent which helps a lot.
Regarding trumpet : just put on a miles davis CD and you know the answer , a trumpet can be very dynamic in real life , and the zanden can portray a good deal of that expirience .
Lastly i never really liked digital , but since the zanden is on the spot ive got much more appreciation for the medium,
Regarding hard controlled sound i am aiming especially on acoustical music , which is never hard on the ear as they are natural instruments .
SS amps may be better on electronic music

 

[microstrip]

Uh Francisco, you are never supposed to tap on a tube when it's hot. All small signal tubes will make some racket when you bang on them. Tapping on hot tubes with some sort of piece of wood is never a good idea.

Mark,

For diagnostics we are supposed to use a rubber mallet avoiding the glass excitation and resonance - it was written in old tube manuals. When you use an audio spectrometer it is possible to separate the glass resonances from the vibration of the tube structure and elements. In order to understand better what is needed to get good tubes we can look at the excellent pages of Upscale Audio.

https://www.upscaleaudio.com/pages/Testing-Power-Tubes.html

https://www.upscaleaudio.com/pages/Testing-Small-Signal-Tubes.html

 

[silviajulieta]

Silviajulieta, IF I'm reading and understanding your post correctly, and I believe I am, you are saying that my hearing ability isn't acute enough to hear distortions in tube gear BUT that yours is!
You my friend, need to seriously re-think your position. As a little back-ground on who I am, I have taught guitar and have been a pro musician ( studio) on and off for nearly
forty years. I suspect I could hear IF all tube gear was eliciting such distortions in the musical realm as you profess to hear! BTW, do you have this kind of musical background?
The only other explanation ( If I give you the benefit of the doubt) is that you must have heard a mis-matched tube piece with the gear that you heard... as andromeda audio said above....
That has to be it, right

Dear DaveyF: IMHO you did not, there is a misunderstood by your part. I'm not saying that you hearing ability isn't acute and certainly not " BUT that yours is ". NO.

DaveyF, that you are a pro-musician on the subject we are analizing means almost nothing. It's not of whom we are but hwat's right or wrong with that tube technology and in specific that can't meet the Ohm Law with a speaker mated load.

Now, as I posted the problem with people like you ( that use tube gear. ) is that your ears are already equalized with the tube sound. My friend if I heard for 3-4 years to the same kind of sound ( home system. ) and no one never told me about those inherent tube amp distortions then I'm unaware of them it does not matters if I'm " Bach " and I'm accustomed to those distortions and that's the way I like it it does not matters is wrong: got it?!?!

Btw, the only mis-matched tube piece that I heard certainly were all those tube amps that can't fulfill almost no single speakers impedance needs. I heard Lamm., Atmasphere, Air Tight, VTL, CJ, etc, etc. This is not important because the drawback is inherent to tube technology. Believe me, I wish that could be in other way but unfortunatelly it's not.

DaveyF, any one of us are not perfect and certainly not experts on all audio subjects. In some subjects we are near " experts " and in other we have very low knowledge level even we can be ignorants ( I'm ignorant on several subjects. Nothing wrong with that. I like to learn. ). Maybe you have a misunderstood on what I posted because your knowledge level on that critical subject is to low and that's all.


Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Silviajullieta :
More on the comparison in my systemthread : http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?6926-H-J-s-system-!

 

[DaveyF]

Dear DaveyF: IMHO you did not, there is a misunderstood by your part. I'm not saying that you hearing ability isn't acute and certainly not " BUT that yours is ". NO.

DaveyF, that you are a pro-musician on the subject we are analizing means almost nothing. It's not of whom we are but hwat's right or wrong with that tube technology and in specific that can't meet the Ohm Law with a speaker mated load.

Now, as I posted the problem with people like you ( that use tube gear. ) is that your ears are already equalized with the tube sound. My friend if I heard for 3-4 years to the same kind of sound ( home system. ) and no one never told me about those inherent tube amp distortions then I'm unaware of them it does not matters if I'm " Bach " and I'm accustomed to those distortions and that's the way I like it it does not matters is wrong: got it?!?!

Btw, the only mis-matched tube piece that I heard certainly were all those tube amps that can't fulfill almost no single speakers impedance needs. I heard Lamm., Atmasphere, Air Tight, VTL, CJ, etc, etc. This is not important because the drawback is inherent to tube technology. Believe me, I wish that could be in other way but unfortunatelly it's not.

DaveyF, any one of us are not perfect and certainly not experts on all audio subjects. In some subjects we are near " experts " and in other we have very low knowledge level even we can be ignorants ( I'm ignorant on several subjects. Nothing wrong with that. I like to learn. ). Maybe you have a misunderstood on what I posted because your knowledge level on that critical subject is to low and that's all.


Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

So that I'm clear....you believe that ALL a'philes ( including myself) who like tube gear are NOT able to hear the distortions that are according to you, inherent to the sound of said gear. You believe that it is simply due to OHM's law that all tube gear manifests this issue.
The fact that I have been a pro musician and have some training in what a tone is supposed to sound like, is also irrelevant...because according to you, the continued exposure to tube gear has sullied my ability (and for that matter all those who listen to tube gear) to discern inherent distortions in said tube gear.
Then to go on, you state that your technical ability infers ( at least I think that is what you are attempting to put across) that anyone who doesn't hear what you hear in tube gear and NOT in ss gear is inherently technically ignorant.
BTW, I also own a ss amp....a lowly Rowland model 8 with choke...for some unknown reason I don't hear less distortions when I listen to it than with my tube amp!
Silviajulieta, you need to get a clue, I'm off this subject with you.

 

[LL21]

SS v Tubes has been going on forever...both subjectively but ALSO objectively (ie, measurements).

I am no techie, but I have read too many posts from too many very credible engineers about lots of different kinds of distortion for both SS and Tubes, that it seems to me that while SS may theoretically have 'lower distortion' as a technology on certain kinds of measurements, there are in fact so many different kinds of distortion, that in reality, by the time ANY design (SS or Tubed) finally gets all the way thru each kind of distortion, in the end, all that has happened is a designer (whether SS or Tubed) has effectively identified, prioritized the various distortions and then mitigated them a certain way to come out with the sound they are happy to present as 'their design'.

Put another way, as a result of the innumerable kinds of distortion (1-9th order distortion, even vs odd, intermodulation, distortion from negative feedback, etc...not to mention that overstretched SS apparently can distort differently than certain tubes, or that conversely, some tubes when NOT pushed too hard actually have negligible distortion of certain kinds...I very much get the sense that any design is a mix of distortions...and each designer prioritizes which distortions matter more or less based on his design. One can measure THD, but that is overly simplistic, and many designers have acknowledged they can 'force' their equipment to measure perfectly, but then it usually results in a different kind of distortion elsewhere.

 

[c1ferrari]

Do you own a Atma-Sphere MP-1 Mk. 3.2.?

Yes...Ralph's most recent iteration. Picked one up as a show special...it's expected to arrive Tuesday

 

[mep]

Mark,

For diagnostics we are supposed to use a rubber mallet avoiding the glass excitation and resonance - it was written in old tube manuals. When you use an audio spectrometer it is possible to separate the glass resonances from the vibration of the tube structure and elements. In order to understand better what is needed to get good tubes we can look at the excellent pages of Upscale Audio.

https://www.upscaleaudio.com/pages/Testing-Power-Tubes.html

https://www.upscaleaudio.com/pages/Testing-Small-Signal-Tubes.html

And Kevin Deal tells people to never tap on tubes.

 

[silviajulieta]

So that I'm clear....you believe that ALL a'philes ( including myself) who like tube gear are NOT able to hear the distortions that are according to you, inherent to the sound of said gear. You believe that it is simply due to OHM's law that all tube gear manifests this issue.
The fact that I have been a pro musician and have some training in what a tone is supposed to sound like, is also irrelevant...because according to you, the continued exposure to tube gear has sullied my ability (and for that matter all those who listen to tube gear) to discern inherent distortions in said tube gear.
Then to go on, you state that your technical ability infers ( at least I think that is what you are attempting to put across) that anyone who doesn't hear what you hear in tube gear and NOT in ss gear is inherently technically ignorant.
BTW, I also own a ss amp....a lowly Rowland model 8 with choke...for some unknown reason I don't hear less distortions when I listen to it than with my tube amp!
Silviajulieta, you need to get a clue, I'm off this subject with you.

Dear DaveyF: +++++ " You believe that it is simply due to OHM's law that all tube gear manifests this issue. " ++++, no some of them you can add its overall design.

+++ " in tube gear and NOT in ss gear is inherently technically ignorant. " +++++, well for your posts you showed that you was unaware on that subject. Nothing wrong with that, I posted that no one of us are perfect and that all of us are ignorant in some audio subjects: at least I'm.

++++ " for some unknown reason I don't hear less distortions... " ++++, well to be aware of any kind of distortions we have to be trained to know what to look for and to know how what we are looking for sounds/performs. We can't be aware of what we don't know in which way is present.

DaveyF, certainly it's not easy to understand in full something that till today was unknowed for you or any one else. The only way to understand it is to " live " it, I mean that some one near you with the knowledge level shows you running your system those distortions and how it sounds through a comparison tests.

If you never had that kind of experiences it's almost imposible for you or any one else to really understand it. Yes, we need trainning to be aware on that subject.

I understand why you are so defensive: you have no arguments and you can't have it because is unaware to you the whole subject and that's why you gave up but not with me but with you: that's it.

Seems to me that you started this tread looking for answers that fulfill your thoughts. You even asked three times the same as if you were trying to be sure that there was no contrary answwer to your own " feelings " and you was happy for that.

Suddenly my post goes against " you " ( not against you. ) and at once you felt non-comfortable and with no precise/clear arguments to follow the discussion and to understand the overall subject: so you close your door.

I wonder why so many tube advocates here choosed to close their eyes to be not able to hear?!?!?!

Btw, only the three first pages on this thread speks on the DaveyF overall subject and all those tube advocates took the next seven pages for other tube subjects and when I came here they stopped for 1.5 pages and started again but don't touched what for me is the critical thread subject: Voila!

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

 

[silviajulieta]

Silviajullieta :
More on the comparison in my systemthread : http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?6926-H-J-s-system-!

Dear Andromedaaudio: IMHO we are not talking the same " language " . Please tell me in which way that link can change the Ohm Law?. Sorry but has no sense to me as has no sense to explain that DaveyF is a musician. Seems to me that for some reasons you can't understand my posts or maybe I can't explain in a clear way oir maybe some of you prefer " don't understand " it and prefer to go with that " tube fantasy ".

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

 

[silviajulieta]

SS v Tubes has been going on forever...both subjectively but ALSO objectively (ie, measurements).

I am no techie, but I have read too many posts from too many very credible engineers about lots of different kinds of distortion for both SS and Tubes, that it seems to me that while SS may theoretically have 'lower distortion' as a technology on certain kinds of measurements, there are in fact so many different kinds of distortion, that in reality, by the time ANY design (SS or Tubed) finally gets all the way thru each kind of distortion, in the end, all that has happened is a designer (whether SS or Tubed) has effectively identified, prioritized the various distortions and then mitigated them a certain way to come out with the sound they are happy to present as 'their design'.

Put another way, as a result of the innumerable kinds of distortion (1-9th order distortion, even vs odd, intermodulation, distortion from negative feedback, etc...not to mention that overstretched SS apparently can distort differently than certain tubes, or that conversely, some tubes when NOT pushed too hard actually have negligible distortion of certain kinds...I very much get the sense that any design is a mix of distortions...and each designer prioritizes which distortions matter more or less based on his design. One can measure THD, but that is overly simplistic, and many designers have acknowledged they can 'force' their equipment to measure perfectly, but then it usually results in a different kind of distortion elsewhere.

Dear Lloydelee21: Maybe you are right when you said: " SS v Tubes has been going on forever... " and IMHO the main reason for that is our each one ignorant level.

Same thing seems happen with digital vs analog/LP. I know that today digital technology it'0s nearest to the recording and nearest to the LIVE MUSIC Reference than analog/LP and for very good reasons but almost all the LP advocates ( not me and I'm a LP advocate. ) denied with no other real foundation that: " I like it ".

Seems to me that we like to live in a ficticious audio world, we don't like to take " the bull by its horns ". Pity for say the least because IMHO in this way we are stopping the high-end grow-up.


Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

 

[microstrip]

Yes...Ralph's most recent iteration. Picked one up as a show special...it's expected to arrive Tuesday

Great! Do you know exactly what are the differences between a mk3.1 and a 3.2?

 

[c1ferrari]

Hi micro,

I'm ignorant
But, I'll ask Ralph.