Uber High End Streamer Wars: Taiko vs. Wadax. What are the Design and Subjective Sonic Differences between the 2?

I agree that Taiko is likely the weakest of the bunch,
not weakest, just in a much safer spot on the price/value curve. so much less stress on the outcome.
And do you think the Taiko DAC can hold a candle to MSB, dCS, or Lampizator?
i have no opinion. but i do believe in Emile that whatever he is doing is likely pretty good and might be close to my own 'get out of the way' sonic compass. at a certain point it becomes what is it not doing in the right way? and what is it doing more in the right way? it's where analog references enter into how far digital might be able to go. it where the tip top separates itself.
 
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And do you think the Taiko DAC can hold a candle to MSB, dCS, or Lampizator?
Time will tell Caesar . I think all of these companies make quality products and we can rate and argue about how they rank. Wadax, MSB and dCS have proven track records and Lampizator has come and has a following as well. Taiko is new in this end of the business ( DAC's) and they need to earn it just like all the others have.
Will they? time will tell
 
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If DCS want the laurels of best digital, they could make a Varese stack available for a shoot out, Lee is obviously their man for the job. And you have a system that could highlight the differences. :)

IMO dCS and (other manufacturers, BTW) do not want the laurels of the best digital - they should be knowledgeable enough such think does not exist in stereo. They just want the laurels of having the digital paying customers prefer ... :)

Why should they be interested in meaningless shoot outs created for the amusement and the benefit of people who are not really interest in buying their products?
 
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..

i have no opinion. but i do believe in Emile that whatever he is doing is likely pretty good and might be close to my own 'get out of the way' sonic compass. at a certain point it becomes what is it not doing in the right way? and what is it doing more in the right way? it's where analog references enter into how far digital might be able to go. it where the tip top separates itself.

Hi Mike,
are you saying Taiko is voicing to their analog references? Or hoping to to appeal to analog references of guys like you?

or something else altogether? TU
 
Hi Mike,
are you saying Taiko is voicing to their analog references? Or hoping to to appeal to analog references of guys like you?

or something else altogether? TU
i'm not saying any more than i wrote. i'm comfortable that Emile's sonic view is aligned with my own.....more or less. and his expectations are high. that's it. and i'm just speculating......without any particulars about it. anyone going with his dac will likely be happy. exactly how far it goes is for others listening to say.
 
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IMO dCS and (other manufacturers, BTW) do not want the laurels of the best digital - they should be knowledgeable enough such think does not exist in stereo. They just want the laurels of having the digital paying customers prefer ... :)

Why should they be interested in meaningless shoot outs created for the amusement and the benefit of people who are not really interest in buying their products?

Hi Microstrip, I respectively disagree with you. When we heard the Varese demo recently, dCS referred to Vivaldi as the best DAC in the world. Many feel Wadax surpassed dcs as the "best digital" while dcs was diligently working on Varese technology.

I think there is a huge sense of pride among these companies and they are DYING to be the seen as the BEST in the marketplace
 
IMO dCS and (other manufacturers, BTW) do not want the laurels of the best digital - they should be knowledgeable enough such think does not exist in stereo. They just want the laurels of having the digital paying customers prefer ... :)

Why should they be interested in meaningless shoot outs created for the amusement and the benefit of people who are not really interest in buying their products?
With the laurels some customers will buy, we have a few on WBF that need to have the best, i know you are not one of them Francisco ! ;)
 
I think there is a huge sense of pride among these companies and they are DYING to be the seen as the BEST in the marketplace
customers want to feel they are being smart, and that they will feel good about their purchase. but buyers of digital also realize performance leadership is a moving target and not something you can capture once and for all. whether they are buying Taiko, Lampi, Wadax, or dCS.

i bought Wadax now three years ago and have upgraded it significantly twice. these last three years of listening have been wonderful. whether it still rules the roost or not honestly i'm not much concerned. every time i listen it hits the spot. i have no regrets and my alternative of waiting for Taiko or dCS or MSB to catch up would have cost me three years of listening bliss. time and enjoyment i would never have got back. that is how i look at it.

right now my head is around a motor home and jeep and hitting the road. enjoying the Wadax while waiting. how Wadax, dCS, Taiko and MSB are looking at it is not my worry. but i think they just want to be in the game in a spot where their buyers feel comfortable. and i also think a shootout will not help them with that. any win would only be momentary anyway. they have way more to lose than to win.
 
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Hi Microstrip, I respectively disagree with you. When we heard the Varese demo recently, dCS referred to Vivaldi as the best DAC in the world. Many feel Wadax surpassed dcs as the "best digital" while dcs was diligently working on Varese technology.

Yes, searching in marketing material we will also probably find such claims from any manufacturer or dealer, usually associated to a specific aspect. It is not what I am addressing.

Considering your "many" I find that none of us has the authority to make such claims and consider such quantitative ambiguous claims ridicule.

As people say, for everyone who says to prefer X I can locate someone preferring Y.

I think there is a huge sense of pride among these companies and they are DYING to be the seen as the BEST in the marketplace

Surely dCS have pride in their products and transparently show us why. And the desire of success in the market place is natural. And as long people (and audio forums, BTW) promote the erroneous concept of the absolute BEST they will associate it to their marketing.
 
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With the laurels some customers will buy, we have a few on WBF that need to have the best, i know you are not one of them Francisco ! ;)

In fact, as in stereo each of us defines his own best, some people manage to believe they have the best .

Although I have now a much better listening room than three years ago, IMO overall I had better sound quality at that time.
 
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In fact, as in stereo each of us defines his own best, some people manage to believe they have the best .

Although I have now a much better listening room than three years ago, IMO overall I had better sound quality at that time.
It takes a while before the full potential of a new room can be realized, sometimes a dip or peek in the bass region becomes a positive feature in system balance because you have tuned your system around it. Suddenly it is missing in a new room. :)
 
All doing overtime since the WADAX Atlantis REF DAC was introduced
People seem to have forgotten all the bile and negativity expressed right here on WBF towards WADAX when they burst on the scene with all the incredible press and reviews three years ago or so. Go back and read and look. I remember all the crap I read and all the crap I argued against. I have no vitriol towards any of the new products, maybe they can do better and maybe they can't. They all however want to be the top dog and don't ever think that is not the case. All high end manuufacturers ALL OF THEM want that.
 
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It takes a while before the full potential of a new room can be realized, sometimes a dip or peek in the bass region becomes a positive feature in system balance because you have tuned your system around it. Suddenly it is missing in a new room. :)

Much more simple than that - I just miss the XLF's. ;)
 
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Time will tell Caesar . I think all of these companies make quality products and we can rate and argue about how they rank. Wadax, MSB and dCS have proven track records and Lampizator has come and has a following as well. Taiko is new in this end of the business ( DAC's) and they need to earn it just like all the others have.
Will they? time will tell
Judging from the number of high-end dacs being sold in favor of the very simple 1st gen Taiko analog card w/ Xdmi interface, their future looks promising.
 
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Judging from the number of high-end dacs being sold in favor of the very simple 1st gen Taiko analog card w/ Xdmi interface, their future looks promising.
selling updates to those who are server customers is not quite the same thing but we shall see what they do in the non locked in customer market once they get out of the extended back order situation, This isnt a negative but its what real at this time.
Anyone that owned an MSB or a dCS or a Wadax is going to take the easiest path and the least painful path instead of a full change which as we all know in HE Audio difficult and can be expensive.
People have done this for years with products like VPI, LINN and other companies that upgrade regularly.
 
I agree that it is likely not in the best interests of the ultra-high-end manufacturers to encourage head-to-head comparison tests of their products. It's the "steak or lobster" scenario: it is easy to conceive of a panel who would unanimously name one or the other as the "best," while the next day another panel might unanimously declare the exact opposite. At these levels, personal taste and the way the entire meal interfaces with the restaurant and one's mood play significant roles in the final determination of which combination provided the better evening out. In the meantime, potential customers could find themselves confused by competing unhelpful claims and advertising campaigns.
On the other hand, I think that most successful purveyors of high-end goods have developed diverse and clever ways of keeping their products in the eye of those who cannot afford them. It's not exclusively functionality that drives mega-purchases, but also the desirability of a product and the satisfaction that comes with ownership, and that satisfaction comes partly from widespread recognition that a product is extraordinary. In my case, it has occasionally taken fifty years of wanting something before I was able to acquire something analogous from a company I had long admired.
 
selling updates to those who are server customers is not quite the same thing but we shall see what they do in the non locked in customer market once they get out of the extended back order situation, This isnt a negative but its what real at this time.
Anyone that owned an MSB or a dCS or a Wadax is going to take the easiest path and the least painful path instead of a full change which as we all know in HE Audio difficult and can be expensive.
People have done this for years with products like VPI, LINN and other companies that upgrade regularly.
I’m not sure I see it as being “locked in”? Taiko server users can use any dac out there via usb and aes/ebu. Some have already chosen to use their very basic 1st gen dac card with Xdmi because they think it already sounds better than their stand alone dacs. And like most digital tech, their integrated dac is likely to keep getting better.

This is not a knock on any of the stand alone dacs. But for me, I find the integrated implementation Taiko is developing to be a good move both sonically and economically.
 
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I agree that it is likely not in the best interests of the ultra-high-end manufacturers to encourage head-to-head comparison tests of their products. It's the "steak or lobster" scenario: it is easy to conceive of a panel who would unanimously name one or the other as the "best," while the next day another panel might unanimously declare the exact opposite. At these levels, personal taste and the way the entire meal interfaces with the restaurant and one's mood play significant roles in the final determination of which combination provided the better evening out. In the meantime, potential customers could find themselves confused by competing unhelpful claims and advertising campaigns.
On the other hand, I think that most successful purveyors of high-end goods have developed diverse and clever ways of keeping their products in the eye of those who cannot afford them. It's not exclusively functionality that drives mega-purchases, but also the desirability of a product and the satisfaction that comes with ownership, and that satisfaction comes partly from widespread recognition that a product is extraordinary. In my case, it has occasionally taken fifty years of wanting something before I was able to acquire something analogous from a company I had long admired.

True. Of course manufacturers do not want comparisons. They just want reviewers, authority figures, to constantly call their product the BEST. They also want that reinforced , month after month, year after year. Like The analytical Sound does for Magico and Stereophile does for Wilson with product of the year awards, midyear “audiophile ear awards”, best of shows awards… to maintain top of mind awareness …

They also want a herd of rich, incurious audio fans blindly following their brand and not doing due diligence and comparisons - see wilson dealer network ,orgiastic taiko threads on this forum that have 25 likes after each idiotic post,, etc.

But I’m in the side of the fans. And finding what’s the best for my tastes and preferences. Although people’s tastes are different, eventually salient differences do consistently come through …
 

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