Upgrading Genesis II's

[garylkoh]

Hi Addicted. You are talking about 30 year old technology vs the latest. But you are also talking about 15x the price. Unfortunately, with the G-II, unless the previous owner has kept up with maintenance - changing out the power capacitors on his servo-amp, updating the midrange ribbon, etc. Or like what racerxnet has done to his G-II above, you are looking at a world of pain.

AUD20k is cheap..... but how much are you prepared to put into the speaker after spending that to restore it?

When Arnie Nudell was the designer, he only played orchestral music for his development. I found that his designs could not play rock, or big band jazz, or latin music convincingly. I took over design when he retired in 2006, and have improved things since so that the Genesis speakers can play every genre of music you can imagine.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

Hi Gary.thanks very much for reply and I appreciate your feedback.

 

[racerxnet]

Hi Gary.thanks very much for reply and I appreciate your feedback.

Have you inspected the system yet? Some things I would check are;
1. Remove the top of the servo amp and check the power supply caps. Unplugged of course. No bulging caps? Replace the caps as a precaution.
2. Are there the new servo cables with it? There was oscillation that could occur with the early ones.
3. Consider the servo bass cables from the Mid/High panels as a addition. Better cohesion
4. Are the wafer switch contacts good? Any scratching or loss of sound when moving it a bit.
5. Are the mid range drivers rattling at adequate SPL's ? If not they will last another 30 years.
6. REL caps are still available for the crossovers. See my posts prior.
7. Do the Bass drivers move smoothly? Push on them gently and feel for scraping.
8. Tweeters should measure 3.9 ohms.
9. Do the wings attached to the base feel solid?
10. Consider the room as part of the sound and treat accordingly.
11. Run REW , Dirac, or Audiolense for DSP correction for the above issues (10).

 

[Addicted to hifi]

I haven’t done any of the above as I have not inspected them yet.the guy says everything is working fine without any problems.

 

[Ron Resnick]

". . . the guy says everything is working fine without any problems."

Is that the same guy who told people on the Hindenburg shortly before docking that everything is working fine?

 

[Addicted to hifi]

I would definitely have a listen and test them if I was going to buy them.I did own infinity iris epsilon in the 90s and I had trouble with the servo unit with them and knowing that the same person designed the genesis ll is making me change my mind on them.

 

[Gregm]

Is that the same guy who told people on the Hindenburg shortly before docking that everything is working fine?

I would definitely have a listen and test them if I was going to buy them.I did own infinity iris epsilon in the 90s and I had trouble with the servo unit with them and knowing that the same person designed the genesis ll is making me change my mind on them.

Definitely concur, especially re the servo. I had Gen Vs and servicing the (servo) amp was a tough proposition (couldn't find schematics anywhere in the first place!)

This doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the speakers of course, only that heading @racerxnet 's advice is worth the trouble!

 

[racerxnet]

I would definitely have a listen and test them if I was going to buy them.I did own infinity iris epsilon in the 90s and I had trouble with the servo unit with them and knowing that the same person designed the genesis ll is making me change my mind on them.

Well,

From the above quote I suppose everyone should not trust Paul McGowen as he was part of the Genesis ownership back in the day. If the servo amp has lasted this long, don't you think with a little patience and TLC it will last another 30 years. Power supply cap replacement is relatively straight forward and low cost for the servo amp. That is probably the most warranted issue on the older units.

I haven’t done any of the above as I have not inspected them yet.the guy says everything is working fine without any problems.

For 20K the seller could address some of the suggestions above. If you have not heard them, or can relate to the sonic characteristics of the system, go have a listen.Take your own music files! I doubt that you will find a better speaker if the sellers price is reasonable/negotiable. If you need any help, I am sure the people on this site can assist.

Thanks,

Mark

 

[ca1ore]

20K AUD ($15K USD) seems like a lot for a 30 plus year old system. I paid less than that for my gently used 200/201 system 16 years ago. Systems like that work great ..... until they don’t. I’ve bought up spares where I can, but there are certain things that when they go I’m the proud owner of 300 pound paper weights.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

20K AUD ($15K USD) seems like a lot for a 30 plus year old system. I paid less than that for my gently used 200/201 system 16 years ago. Systems like that work great ..... until they don’t. I’ve bought up spares where I can, but there are certain things that when they go I’m the proud owner of 300 pound paper weights.

You got a bargain. I think it’s a great price. what can you buy today for 20 grand aud that will match a proper working genesis ll speakers.well made speakers with care should last a very long time.

 

[Alrainbow]

for one go to listen to them , its a must and bring your own music . i dont know much on genesis stuff but do own an even older IRS V . gary forewarned me too , he is correct . my entire setup is dead peoples legacy stuff . guess as we die we leave to the next up coming . if you are somewhat handy none of this is that bad. but if you don't have the room for them or time to put into them im not so sure for you . regarding others non genesis repairs again not for me . when i bought my amps i intended to send them out to have a full recap done . issue is no one will do a full and no one can say by looking nor testing if a cap is bad on ELYTICS . garys comment is spot on and every word he says is an honest one . for me part is the challenge and reward as i did it. post here as it goes so we all learn some .

 

[racerxnet]

for one go to listen to them , its a must and bring your own music . i dont know much on genesis stuff but do own an even older IRS V . gary forewarned me too , he is correct . my entire setup is dead peoples legacy stuff . guess as we die we leave to the next up coming . if you are somewhat handy none of this is that bad. but if you don't have the room for them or time to put into them im not so sure for you . regarding others non genesis repairs again not for me . when i bought my amps i intended to send them out to have a full recap done . issue is no one will do a full and no one can say by looking nor testing if a cap is bad on ELYTICS . garys comment is spot on and every word he says is an honest one . for me part is the challenge and reward as i did it. post here as it goes so we all learn some .

I have posted all the part numbers for the troublesome issues regarding the system. I will add part numbers for the power supply caps later today. They are 10K - 80v. It is under $250.00 to replace them all (diy). As noted, keep us posted on your adventure. I believe you are looking at the identical system I have.

MAK

 

[ca1ore]

You got a bargain. I think it’s a great price. what can you buy today for 20 grand aud that will match a proper working genesis ll speakers.well made speakers with care should last a very long time.

At the time, $15K seemed like a lot .... but I think in retrospect I got a pretty good deal. The ‘problem’ of course is that things deteriorate over time regardless of the level of care they receive. The BG ribbons in mine started making funny noises so I had them rebuilt .... just a few months before BG closed. I had no sense they were going under, just a bit of dumb luck. Hopefully the rebuilt drivers have another 15 years in then. Woofer amp went but I have a good amp tech near me (former Krell) and he was able to fix it; but there are things that could go wrong that are not fixable. I did buy a traded in spare from Gary years ago, so that buys me some extra time. I also cut off the woofers at 35 hz to reduce stress on the older brown drivers. Below 35 goes to a set of subs that can be easily replaced as necessary. Regardless, at some point my 200s will stop working and require significant $$.

Maybe your GII will be flawless for another decade and be better than any new speaker you can buy, or they may fail in a month and be worse. No way to know. A few years ago there was a pair of 350s for sale locally for $7K and I thought long and hard about them .... but ultimately didn’t need the headache.

 

[racerxnet]

At the time, $15K seemed like a lot .... but I think in retrospect I got a pretty good deal. The ‘problem’ of course is that things deteriorate over time regardless of the level of care they receive. The BG ribbons in mine started making funny noises so I had them rebuilt .... just a few months before BG closed. I had no sense they were going under, just a bit of dumb luck. Hopefully the rebuilt drivers have another 15 years in then. Woofer amp went but I have a good amp tech near me (former Krell) and he was able to fix it; but there are things that could go wrong that are not fixable. I did buy a traded in spare from Gary years ago, so that buys me some extra time. I also cut off the woofers at 35 hz to reduce stress on the older brown drivers. Below 35 goes to a set of subs that can be easily replaced as necessary. Regardless, at some point my 200s will stop working and require significant $$.

Maybe your GII will be flawless for another decade and be better than any new speaker you can buy, or they may fail in a month and be worse. No way to know. A few years ago there was a pair of 350s for sale locally for $7K and I thought long and hard about them .... but ultimately didn’t need the headache.

Any idea who your contact point was from BG when your mid range driver was repaired/replaced? I am always looking for possibilities for contacts.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

At the time, $15K seemed like a lot .... but I think in retrospect I got a pretty good deal. The ‘problem’ of course is that things deteriorate over time regardless of the level of care they receive. The BG ribbons in mine started making funny noises so I had them rebuilt .... just a few months before BG closed. I had no sense they were going under, just a bit of dumb luck. Hopefully the rebuilt drivers have another 15 years in then. Woofer amp went but I have a good amp tech near me (former Krell) and he was able to fix it; but there are things that could go wrong that are not fixable. I did buy a traded in spare from Gary years ago, so that buys me some extra time. I also cut off the woofers at 35 hz to reduce stress on the older brown drivers. Below 35 goes to a set of subs that can be easily replaced as necessary. Regardless, at some point my 200s will stop working and require significant $$.

Maybe your GII will be flawless for another decade and be better than any new speaker you can buy, or they may fail in a month and be worse. No way to know. A few years ago there was a pair of 350s for sale locally for $7K and I thought long and hard about them .... but ultimately didn’t need the headache.

Yes your right being nearly 30 years old is most likely to get myself in a world of pain as gary Koh has said.I want to buy them but am afraid to.not being able to afford a brand new genesis speakers, my only chance of owNing these surberb speakers is second hand.

 

[racerxnet]

Yes your right being nearly 30 years old is most likely to get myself in a world of pain as gary Koh has said.I want to buy them but am afraid to.not being able to afford a brand new genesis speakers, my only chance of owNing these surberb speakers is second hand.

The only way you will know is to get off the pot and go have a listen/look at them.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

In the end I decided not to buy them and upgrade what I have now with better cables and tweaks.thanks to everyone for your help very much appreciated.cheers

 

[BJP691]

I am the original owner of a set of 200's. I still have them and enjoy what they can do.

While not the absolute best you can get any longer I must say they do SO MANY things right.

I've had NO issues with the since new.

If I part with them it will be for something like Magico M6's, and that is a whole different price league,

Did you listen to them?
How many of the experts forecasting doom here have owned a set and have first hand knowledge?
Do you think Gary has any interest in guiding you to a USED set of Genesis?

Just 2 cents from an owner, no one I know of that has ever listened to my setup did not come away impressed.

 

[garylkoh]

I am the original owner of a set of 200's. I still have them and enjoy what they can do.

While not the absolute best you can get any longer I must say they do SO MANY things right.

I've had NO issues with the since new.

If I part with them it will be for something like Magico M6's, and that is a whole different price league,

Did you listen to them?
How many of the experts forecasting doom here have owned a set and have first hand knowledge?
Do you think Gary has any interest in guiding you to a USED set of Genesis?

Just 2 cents from an owner, no one I know of that has ever listened to my setup did not come away impressed.View attachment 73796

Actually, I do - and I have guided many to a set of used Genesis. I also help Genesis owners sell their old speakers because I know that eventually they will come back. Once you've lived with and love the coherence and clarity of the ribbon tweeters, ribbon line-source and servo-controlled bass, I'm willing to bet that you will be back.

And, on top of that, I help owners of the old speakers designed by Arnie and the previous company as far as I can as a lot of technical information was lost in the transition. And I also have a full set of upgrades that cover most of the old products. All you need to do is to look at this forum where I even provide some of the technical information about upgrades I have developed that you can DIY if you are up to it.

This 8 year old pair was the most recent example. I connected the seller to the buyer, but the buyer wanted the seller to send it to the factory for an extensive check-up and refurbish if necessary. So, it was in the factory for 2 weeks, where we upgraded the midrange ribbon, changed out a few rusty screws, tested the crossovers and made sure all the drivers were still to tolerance. Then, today the shipper comes and takes them away.

 

[garylkoh]

I did buy a traded in spare from Gary years ago, so that buys me some extra time. I also cut off the woofers at 35 hz to reduce stress on the older brown drivers. Below 35 goes to a set of subs that can be easily replaced as necessary. Regardless, at some point my 200s will stop working and require significant $$.

Maybe your GII will be flawless for another decade and be better than any new speaker you can buy, or they may fail in a month and be worse. No way to know. A few years ago there was a pair of 350s for sale locally for $7K and I thought long and hard about them .... but ultimately didn’t need the headache.

Simon, give the woofers 3 more Hz. That will cover the low string on the double bass, and shouldn't put too much more stress on the old brown woofers. And you already rotated the woofers by 180 degrees to distribute the stress of gravity on them, right?