Upgrading Genesis II's

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Actually, I do - and I have guided many to a set of used Genesis. I also help Genesis owners sell their old speakers because I know that eventually they will come back. Once you've lived with and love the coherence and clarity of the ribbon tweeters, ribbon line-source and servo-controlled bass, I'm willing to bet that you will be back.

And, on top of that, I help owners of the old speakers designed by Arnie and the previous company as far as I can as a lot of technical information was lost in the transition. And I also have a full set of upgrades that cover most of the old products. All you need to do is to look at this forum where I even provide some of the technical information about upgrades I have developed that you can DIY if you are up to it.

This 8 year old pair was the most recent example. I connected the seller to the buyer, but the buyer wanted the seller to send it to the factory for an extensive check-up and refurbish if necessary. So, it was in the factory for 2 weeks, where we upgraded the midrange ribbon, changed out a few rusty screws, tested the crossovers and made sure all the drivers were still to tolerance. Then, today the shipper comes and takes them away.

View attachment 74567
Absolutely stunning, Gary. I remember you made more narrow 'fins' for a narrower room for someone (in Monaco?) How narrow can you get those panels...and are you 'ok' with someone wanting to place the sub towers behind the main panel or must they be only partly behind the panel?
 
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Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
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This forum has witnessed over the years how Gary does literally everything he possibly can to support the owners of older Genesis loudspeakers and the owners of Infinity loudspeakers.
 
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garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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Absolutely stunning, Gary. I remember you made more narrow 'fins' for a narrower room for someone (in Monaco?) How narrow can you get those panels...and are you 'ok' with someone wanting to place the sub towers behind the main panel or must they be only partly behind the panel?

I can get those panels pretty narrow - but it comes to a point where the midrange no longer mates to the 12-inch woofers as well, and you do have to go to 8-inch woofers. I do have one customer placing the sub towers behind the main panel. But he has the woofers firing sideways instead of towards the ribbon. If they are too close, the bass wave from the woofers could blast through the ribbon midrange!!
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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I can get those panels pretty narrow - but it comes to a point where the midrange no longer mates to the 12-inch woofers as well, and you do have to go to 8-inch woofers. I do have one customer placing the sub towers behind the main panel. But he has the woofers firing sideways instead of towards the ribbon. If they are too close, the bass wave from the woofers could blast through the ribbon midrange!!
Hi Gary. Thank you. Very, very good to know. One to bear in mind for the future, Gary. We have never forgotten hearing the Genesis 1s some years ago at Audiocrack's place. Of course, we are going to need a bigger room first!!!

For now, the XLFs are wonderful particularly with the Velodyne DD18+...and we are contemplating going much bigger with the deep bass to get serious 'cone surface area' to really create that sense of venue and space. I have thought about your own massive 6-cone sub even.
 
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racerxnet

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Apr 30, 2014
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Simon, give the woofers 3 more Hz. That will cover the low string on the double bass, and shouldn't put too much more stress on the old brown woofers. And you already rotated the woofers by 180 degrees to distribute the stress of gravity on them, right?

Interesting thought on rotating the woofers. Gary, do you know how much wire is available to pull the woofer out during rotation. I'd hate to remove the screws, pull the woofer out, and rip the wires off the connection for the accelerometer and driver. I'd also have a concern that there is wire to accommodate the rotation.

Thanks,

MAK
 
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garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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www.genesisloudspeakers.com
Interesting thought on rotating the woofers. Gary, do you know how much wire is available to pull the woofer out during rotation. I'd hate to remove the screws, pull the woofer out, and rip the wires off the connection for the accelerometer and driver. I'd also have a concern that there is wire to accommodate the rotation.

Thanks,

MAK

Mak,

There should be ample wire to rotate the woofers since we need to put enough slack on the wires to solder the woofer on to the wires before pushing the woofer back into the hole.

Woofer cones are heavy, and move a lot. Rotating them 180 degrees counter the effect of 20 years of gravity.....
 

racerxnet

Well-Known Member
Apr 30, 2014
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Mak,

There should be ample wire to rotate the woofers since we need to put enough slack on the wires to solder the woofer on to the wires before pushing the woofer back into the hole.

Woofer cones are heavy, and move a lot. Rotating them 180 degrees counter the effect of 20 years of gravity.....
Thanks Gary,

I will pull the woofers onto the carpet and lay them on their back before removing the screws to rotate. Is there anything I should look for regarding the accelerometer? Any pictures of the woofer units to satisfy my curiosity?

Thanks,

MAK
 

markhof56

New Member
Feb 22, 2021
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I'm looking to purchase my final pair of speakers and will be purchasing used. Under consideration are Genesis II and Genesis G201. There have been plenty of caveats in these forums about these speakers due to age. A friend has the Genesis IIs so I'm very familiar with and like music results of the IIs. That said they are dated and are missing enhancements made in the G201 (bass cables, servo-bass interconnect, dipole woofer towers...)
 
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markhof56

New Member
Feb 22, 2021
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Does anyone have some sonic advice/comparison of the IIs versus the G201s? Thanks.
Also, how do the speakers compare in terms of needed long-term additional work and reliability?
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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Seattle, WA
www.genesisloudspeakers.com
The G-II's are a great candidate for the final pair of speakers you would buy as a music lover. We have all available upgrades just because so many of the owners keep them for life. I am still very fond of the G-II as it sounds "richer" than the speakers with the narrow folded wings and 8-inch woofers.

Most of the time, there isn't much maintenance needed. But, that does not mean NO maintenance. The power supply caps in the Servo-Bass amps deteriorate due to heat and age. So, those need to be changed out before they fail and take your amp out.

Woofers, because they move a lot and are heavy, you need to change because the suspensions wear out. However, because of the servo-feedback, this is not as bad sonically as normal loudspeakers without servo. But if the suspension fails and the voice coils rub and short, it could take out your servo-amp. As I mentioned above, turn them 180 deg, and you should be good for a few more years.

Tweeters do not move much, so should last a century. One owner reported that his tweeters failed because of dust being deposited, and then he tried to suck the dust out with a vacuum cleaner. The new tweeters are a bit better though - so many folks have already upgraded.

The midrange also doesn't move much, and if the original Carver ribbons are still good, they should last a good long time. This is where parts deterioration helps preserve the speaker. There are non-polar electrolytic capacitors in the crossover. As these age, the capacitance goes down. When the capacitance goes down in a high-pass filter, the frequency goes up. So, when the ribbons age and cannot take the stresses of lower frequency, the aging of the crossover reduces the low frequencies!! If the previous owner put in B&G ribbons he bought off the internet in, the higher frequency in the high-pass filter is essential as those ribbons made for DIY are only good for 250Hz up to 18kHz.

When the crossover and the ribbon deteriorate to the point where there is a hole in the music between the woofers and the midrange, you will then have to upgrade the crossovers and midrange ribbon.
 

markhof56

New Member
Feb 22, 2021
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Hi Gary,
Thanks for your response; its looking more likely that I'll be getting the IIs so will be looking for some pointers.
Concerning upgrading the Caps in the amps, if these are the large main power supply caps then that is within my skillset to replace. If however this includes smaller caps on circuit boards then this is out of my skillset and I'll be looking for a professional to do that work. As to the large caps, advice will be sought to find the correct caps (or better).
As to the crossover, from what I've read and seen in these forums, they are simple enough that I can make those changes as needed with advice on proper component replacement parts.
The Gen IIs I'm considering may come with the newer woofers though they have not been installed and I'm aware of the woodworking needed to install these; that as well is in my woodworking skillset. It also appears these IIs have the newer bass cables though not sure about the servo-bass interconnect. If they don't have the server-bass interconnect then I'll be ordering that from Genesis.
Thanks again,
Mark H
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
5,501
96
545
Seattle, WA
www.genesisloudspeakers.com
The caps to change are the large main power supply caps. However, there are also smaller caps that on the PCBs that might need work if they are bulging, and signal de-coupling that you could upgrade. There's plenty of information here, as well as in the Genesis owner's FB group.
 

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