van den Hul Colibri Grand Cru

[tima]

Speaking on the phone with AJ Van Den Hull some time ago, he had told me that the GC was designed for Tonearms with low effective mass, in fact he had named few as a good pair. Referring to one of them he had characterized it as a forgotten gem. however I know that at least a member here, who had ordered and got a custom made one to match his high mass tonearm.

Savvas, do you happen to recall the tonearms he named? Thnx.

 

[ferrari275]

Solypsa

I wasn't under the impression that VdH carts were best in high mass arms. Has the GC been developed for them?

Indeed, the VDH Colibri & Grand Cru are higher compliance by nature and not the norm comparatively speaking to most LOMC carts.

Fortunately, the AS Aquilar 12" varies by way of effective mass (15.5g - 18.8g) depending upon counterweight configuration. Perhaps I should also consider the 10" length model which has a lower effective mass (11.4g). Since VDH offers independent cartridge suspension tuning and optimization, I do not anticipate the requirements for the longer Aquilar to present any issues.

 

[ferrari275]

Vienna

At my case the original GC was a completely mismatch with my Kuzma 4P.

Curious, did you try playing the GC with the 11" or 14" length 4Point?

 

[Vienna]

Savvas, do you happen to recall the tonearms he named? Thnx.

Dear Tim, he named a few but he insisted and discussed for long, on the EPA100. Sorry can’t recall the rest.

 

[Vienna]

Curious, did you try playing the GC with the 11" or 14" length 4Point?

It was the 11” 4P. I repeat that this specific cartridge was one of the first bunch and not suitable for heavy Tonearms. I know that VDH can provide custom made GC to match heavier Tonearms.

 

[Solypsa]

iirc EPA100 has for long been a reference, or at least development tool, for VdH...

Explains the bias towards light-medium mass.

 

[Tango]

Indeed, the VDH Colibri & Grand Cru are higher compliance by nature and not the norm comparatively speaking to most LOMC carts.

Fortunately, the AS Aquilar 12" varies by way of effective mass (15.5g - 18.8g) depending upon counterweight configuration. Perhaps I should also consider the 10" length model which has a lower effective mass (11.4g). Since VDH offers independent cartridge suspension tuning and optimization, I do not anticipate the requirements for the longer Aquilar to present any issues.

Allow me to tamper your mind a little . The Aquilar should have the same character as the Axiom with some differences. The bass and mid of the Axiom could sound a little more generous...meaning it adds something to sound. If you like to hear the music more from the the cart and vinyl itself, the boring Ddk hyped tonearm like 3012R will do the trick for much cheaper. The bass will be more articulate. According to some comment mad earlier, the Gran Cru sems to have a more complete tone than other vdh, this should be already excellent and not adding any more to it.

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[Solypsa]

Dietrich was 'mr.fr66' before AS so makes sense that his arms might share a 'generous spirit'

 

[infinitely baffled]

Does anyone offhand know the effective mass of the Schroeder LT?

You know i thought it would be the work of a minute to answer that.
Half an hour, two articles and half an audiogon thread later, I'm still dont have an exact answer, other than 'medium mass'
But i now believe that's because they vary according to the materials used to construct the arm tube, and other variations depending on each commissoning owner's requirements.

Steve Dobbins makes his own LT with a magnesium arm tube, this will no doubt differ from Frank Schroeder's wooden or carbon fibre examples.
I understand Steve is a big Colibri fan, the pics on his website of his own turntable The Beat feature a Colibri on his LT

So if it's good enough for my tt's designer, good 'nuff for me. Though he now favours the magnesium arm wand
Which has got me thinking about keeping an all wooden chain, Grenaille wood LT with my current ABW Grand Cru on my heavily woodified af 301,
and look into a Dobbins LT, installed by the man like Steve onto my Beat, with a Pau Grand Cru.
Would require quite a bit of saving
But hey, it's not like we can go anywhere.


(And I'd be certain of getting the best from the setup)

 

[infinitely baffled]

I wasn't under the impression that VdH carts were best in high mass arms. Has the GC been developed for them?

No.
I am using mine ina high mass arm contrary to advice from vdH.
However i have a lightweight headshell to ameliorate the issue while i await a more suitable arm. And i would say, the Grand Cru seems more tolerant of this mismatch than my two previous Colibri

 

[infinitely baffled]

Does anyone offhand know the effective mass of the Schroeder LT?

Ok found it,
14-17 grams, depending on counterweight location, for the Steve Dobbins LT. But i think that may be a pre-magnesium weight

https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/xact-audio-the-beat-magdrive-turntable/

 

[PeterA]

My vdH Grand Cru is meant for arms with 10-14g effective mass. Both the V-12 and 3012R are about 12g, depending on where the weight is.

 

[Solypsa]

Yeah the 3102rs (for an arm known to work with everything) fairly light. The 3012s1 adds at least 10g.

 

[Solypsa]

Yeah the 3102rs(for an arm known to work with everything) fairly light. The 3012s1 adds at least 10g.

 

[ferrari275]

Allow me to tamper your mind a little . The Aquilar should have the same character as the Axiom with some differences. The bass and mid of the Axiom could sound a little more generous...meaning it adds something to sound. If you like to hear the music more from the the cart and vinyl itself, the boring Ddk hyped tonearm like 3012R will do the trick for much cheaper. The bass will be more articulate. According to some comment mad earlier, the Gran Cru sems to have a more complete tone than other vdh, this should be already excellent and not adding any more to it.

Kind regards,
Tang

Suffice to say, you prefer the SME 3012R in this instance... Having been less than enamored with SME arms owned during years past, I'm certain my hesitation is understandable. However, there are always exceptions to the rule in our world that is high end !

Although a personal audition has never presented itself, I've heard many good things about the AS Aquilar, so it's hard not to seriously consider it.

 

[ferrari275]

Infinity Baffled

Ok found it,
14-17 grams, depending on counterweight location, for the Steve Dobbins LT. But i think that may be a pre-magnesium weight

A big thanks!

 

[PeterA]

 

[Tango]

@PeterA . Keep putting time on the vdh. You think it does wonder now. Guess what? You wouldn't believe the clarity and transparency this cart can give you until you put it right next to another cart after say 500 hrs. or more. (I don't remember how many hours I have on mine.) But right now if I play the Opus1 which I found more transparent than MSLand others that I own, the vdh will surpass it like a 911 Turbo S passes a Carrera 4S. No kidding. I had to checked the setting of my Opus1 if it was off the mark and it wasn't. Then I replaced my Opus1 with another Opus1 that I owned just to make sure. (These checking, rechecking, a/b, then a/b again and again habit actually comes from associating with Bonzo too much.) You are a transparency freak just like me and you have the 5R. I don't. So in theory you cart could even be more capable than mine.

 

[Solypsa]

Isn't nice when things get better with age!

 

[kodomo]

Dear Tang, have you ever measured your carts frequency response. If you haver ever got a response from adjust+, analog magic or similar, please do share. I am not asking to critique but to understand your taste and preference. By trying to understand you, I am also trying to understand my own VdH experience as I have no one to compare around.

Mine had a rising response over 10khz and this may have been to peoples liking or it may be my particular cartridge had too much of this upper end tilt in my particular setup. Generally when people talk about "open" sound, I found out through measuring that their speakers upper end frequency response was tilted upwards, especially between 10khz-15khz. I just wonder if there is a similar case here.