Vote today... Mitt Romney or Barack Obama

[rbbert]

Medicare is expensive because our health care system is expensive. Despite spending about twice as much per capita as the second most expensive country (and 2 1/2 - 3 times most of the First World expense), by any measure this country's health care is second rate. Our life expectancy ranks about 35th in the world, and using measures such as percentage of premature births, percentage of hypertension or diabetic patients in good health, etc. we do little better. The average Medicare expenditure in the last year of a person's life is more than $600,000, or more than 10 times the similar cost in other First World countries.

Although not currently popular in this country, the only real solution to controlling health care (and therefore Medicare) costs is to adopt a single payer system like the rest of the First World, and to try to attempt a cultural shift to accept that futile end-of-life health care expenditures are indeed futile.

 

[rbbert]

What is the answer to illegal immigration? Time and again it's demonstrated that US citizens and legal immigrants won't do the work that many (most?) illegals do, so who will do that work?

Selling US Government properties is unfortunately only a one time deal, and the damage to the environment from letting that land fall into private hands is probably incalculable.

 

[Andre Marc]

The real issue is what is considered rich ? Obama's version at $200K per individual ? That is middle class in Manhattan, Chicago and other major cities. Is rich above $5million in annaul income, less, more ? Perhaps those are the ones (the real rich), especially billionaires who you could tax at 90% and they would still have billions to spend. Maybe Warren Buffet should shut his phat hick trap and put his money where his mouth is and do the right thing and pay up. Nothing worse than some billionaire telling other successful people how much they should pay in tax.

No, nothing is worse than a billionaire paying a lower tax rate than a doctor or a school principal.

 

[Gregadd]

Let's go a little further.

Eliminate corporations, monopolies, patents, copyrights and business deductions,farm subsidies and price supports. Let's tax capital gains like regular income. Finally let's tax churches.
Let's just make it one big free for all. Everyone for them self.

 

[Gregadd]

What is the answer to illegal immigration? Time and again it's demonstrated that US citizens and legal immigrants won't do the work that many (most?) illegals do, so who will do that work?rbbert

Our citizens will do anything for a decent wage.
You can suppress wages if the workers can be deported if they dare complain. I don't have the numbers but it appears undocumented workers pay into the system like American workers but are unable to collect because of their illegal status.

Selling US Government properties is unfortunately only a one time deal, and the damage to the environment from letting that land fall into private hands is probably incalculable.]

When you sell off property you usually have to rent it back.

 

[Mosin]

What is the answer to illegal immigration? Time and again it's demonstrated that US citizens and legal immigrants won't do the work that many (most?) illegals do, so who will do that work?

Selling US Government properties is unfortunately only a one time deal, and the damage to the environment from letting that land fall into private hands is probably incalculable.

Make the illegals show that they want to be legal for the right reasons, and start them in the process of doing it legally.

Environment my ass. Tell that to my mother when a helicopter from the local Federally owned nuclear facility lands on her property to scoop up dirt for testing. She was a no-nuke when Bonnie Raitt was in kindergarten. The last people to trust with the environment is the government. Been to Russia or the Ukraine lately?

Then, you have the billions spent to oversee and maintain those government lands.

 

[NorthStar]

-- This thread tells me a lot about some of you guys. :b

 

[rbbert]

It's very disingenuous to compare our government to those of Russia or Ukraine, and for that matter to compare the envornmental insensitivity of private industry to that of our government.

 

[Mosin]

Medicare is expensive because our health care system is expensive. Despite spending about twice as much per capita as the second most expensive country (and 2 1/2 - 3 times most of the First World expense), by any measure this country's health care is second rate. Our life expectancy ranks about 35th in the world, and using measures such as percentage of premature births, percentage of hypertension or diabetic patients in good health, etc. we do little better. The average Medicare expenditure in the last year of a person's life is more than $600,000, or more than 10 times the similar cost in other First World countries.

Although not currently popular in this country, the only real solution to controlling health care (and therefore Medicare) costs is to adopt a single payer system like the rest of the First World, and to try to attempt a cultural shift to accept that futile end-of-life health care expenditures are indeed futile.

Not so. Life expectancy in the country is determined differently from many others. First, we count stillbirths. Europe doesn't. In fact, Europe doesn't count infant mortality until a certain point, which I have forgotten. That alone goes a long way, not to mention our underclass that refuses to accept treatment for certain things. The refusal of treatment of VD is one of the main reasons for kidney failure in the US. All that should be factored in. We count everyone, and they weight their results.

Single payer will come, but at a large cost. Doctors who I personally know are leaving the system just because of Medicare cuts. Some are taking payments to be your doctor. Pay one GP I know $750 a year, and he will see you. That includes an annual physical and whatever comes up during the year. He won't take Medicaid or Medicare because it isn't profitable. Jan. 1, Medicare becomes virtually worthless because of a 27% reimbursement cut.

Why would a foreign doctor come here anymore with the new system? Expect a severe doctor shortage, and expect a lot of quacks in the system.

A story:

My friend, Garth Phillippe of Eclectic Audio, also known for the brand Incognito, was diagnosed with throat cancer in upstate New York. Because he was seen in Germany for the problem, he was denied coverage because it was considered to be a preexisting condition. The reason is because he had moved here from Germany where he had been getting treatment for a year and a half. Doctors there said he had an infection, so they were giving him antibiotics. Innocently enough, he mentioned this when he sought treatment here, and somehow the insurance company found out. So, he got screwed by our system because he didn't have enough money to pay for treatment out of pocket.

He moved back to Germany for treatment, and was promptly put on a waiting list. Six weeks later, he was assigned a doctor. (Bear in mind that these people were the ones who misdiagnosed him in the beginning.) A few weeks later, he saw one Dr. Lyons who gave him some "medicine" and sent him home until the next appointment a month later. I'm no doctor, but some looking around indicated that he should have had aggressive chemotherapy and radiation ASAP. Anyway, that didn't happen. What did happen is that Garth sent me an e-mail asking me to help him figure out how to work eBay. (He wasn't that computer savvy.) The reason he wanted to know is because Dr. Lyons found out that Garth knew about electronics, and the good doctor wanted to invent a tumor zapping machine. Desperate, Garth complied by buying some old German amps and converting them to God knows what. On this end, I felt completely helpless. Anyway, our greedy system and Germany's incompetent system finished him off, although our system would have most likely detected the problem earlier. If so, and if he had been here instead, he might be alive today.

Another problem is that people aren't charged the same for same services. My wife had a hospital visit, and the hospital charged $17,000. However, they accepted $2,500 as full payment from our insurance company. If we didn't have insurance, we would have been on the hook for the full 17K. That's just not right, but no one in government cares. Why didn't they fix that along with the $100 aspirin and lack of itemization on bills?

Our system is screwed up, but we have taken a wrong left turn along the way to fixing it.

The bottom line is that we are headed toward the German system at lightspeed, and it ain't what you think.

It's very disingenuous to compare our government to those of Russia or Ukraine, and for that matter to compare the envornmental insensitivity of private industry to that of our government.

Ya think? Guess again, Sunshine. What makes you think we are so different?

In government, there is zero responsibility for workers. In private business, somebody gets fired. I happen to know our government pollutes. They cover it up better.

 

[rbbert]

So much hogwash...

Anecdotes can always be used to counter more valid information.

 

[rockitman]

Another problem is that people aren't charged the same for same services. My wife had a hospital visit, and the hospital charged $17,000. However, they accepted $2,500 as full payment from our insurance company. If we didn't have insurance, we would have been on the hook for the full 17K. That's just not right, but no one in government cares. Why didn't they fix that along with the $100 aspirin and lack of itemization on bills?

Our system is screwed up, but we have taken a wrong left turn along the way to fixing it.

A perfect example of our screwed up healthcare system. The fee for service model is a failure and Obamacare (gag) does nothing to address it. Pharma's are licking their chops..Wall street says by Pharma stocks when Obama is in town....

 

[Bill Hart]

No, almost done. You've found enough to partially eliminate the current deficit, but a lot more was left on the table.

Eliminate all assistance to those who refuse to work, or who are habitually addicted to the system. Also, refuse help to illegal aliens who have never put a dime into the system, and include those who have worked within the system, but under false pretenses. This includes all medical and educational assistance of any sort. Deny any benefit or assistance to any criminal element, US citizen or otherwise.

Put time limits and caps on assistance for able-bodied people, regardless of circumstance.

Means test all government employees, and pay them prevailing wages based on the private sector equivalents and geographic region, including retirement benefits. Make the retirement part retroactive. Include all elected officials, and stop retirement programs for all elected officials, altogether. (Public servants, my ass. We're the servants.)

Stop bailing out union pensions, too. Why should we carry those guys?

Next, sell all excess public lands and properties at absolute auction to parties inside The United States. Example: Thirty-five miles of Southern California beachfront property owned by the Federal Government would go for big bucks. The maintenance alone on some of this property amounts to billions, I suspect.

Change how budgets are managed by various agencies, so that they cannot waste money at the end of each fiscal year, military included.

Eliminate useless, inefficient, detrimental or wasteful agencies. There are bunches of forgotten agencies scattered around the country, not to mention some of the big ones. Two ladies surfing the internet in a little office in a backwoods town with a copy machine each? Gimme a break. I can give you other examples.

Trim out-of-control agencies, and make them stick to their original charters. USDA...Now there's a prime example.

Stop worthless programs. Head Start comes to mind, as does whoever does those PSA commercials.

Eliminate discretionary spending entirely.

Sell TVA. TVA is insanity at its finest.

Stop starting wars...Oh, you said that already!

Add it all up, we are talking real money that could be put to uses like you mention.

Now, we are done...maybe.

Lot of good thoughts here, Win. But I thought they already put all the useless agencies under one roof- Homeland Security?
:O)

 

[Bill Hart]

It's very disingenuous to compare our government to those of Russia or Ukraine, and for that matter to compare the envornmental insensitivity of private industry to that of our government.

You know, in one respect it's funny: for a while, Drudge (don't yell at me it's a great source for many humorous links) would post contrasting pictures of Obama and Putin: Obama, riding a bicycle on Martha's Vineyard wearing a safety helmet and knee socks v. Putin, wielding an AK-47 and wearing a scuba outfit. Cracked me up. Putin is a pretty scary guy, though.

 

[Bill Hart]

Medicare is expensive because our health care system is expensive. Despite spending about twice as much per capita as the second most expensive country (and 2 1/2 - 3 times most of the First World expense), by any measure this country's health care is second rate. Our life expectancy ranks about 35th in the world, and using measures such as percentage of premature births, percentage of hypertension or diabetic patients in good health, etc. we do little better. The average Medicare expenditure in the last year of a person's life is more than $600,000, or more than 10 times the similar cost in other First World countries.

Although not currently popular in this country, the only real solution to controlling health care (and therefore Medicare) costs is to adopt a single payer system like the rest of the First World, and to try to attempt a cultural shift to accept that futile end-of-life health care expenditures are indeed futile.

Hospitals are supposed to make profits. So, those two pills that cost virtually nothing when you are on the outside suddenly cost 50 dollars when you in the hospital. This has nothing to do with the cost of delivering health care services, unless you are talking about the person who writes the thing in your chart, the hospital pharmacy that dispenses it, the runner that picks it up from the pharmacy and delivers it to the floor, and the nurse or assistant who takes it into your room and gives it to you. Oh, and the little paper cup for the water. And, if you are on a prescription med when you check into the hospital, my recollection is, you can't bring yours in, you have to buy it from the hospital. I can't remember how much they mark up aspirin or Advil.

 

[egidius]

Yes..

Stop starting wars.
Tim

I truly believe that would save money..

 

[edorr]

A perfect example of our screwed up healthcare system. The fee for service model is a failure and Obamacare (gag) does nothing to address it. Pharma's are licking their chops..Wall street says by Pharma stocks when Obama is in town....

A few givens: healthcare as it is is all crewed up, and Obamacare is deeply flawed. The economy is still in the tank. Americans don't like big government. Social security is not sustainable. Everyone is worried about the deficit.

This election had so many openings for the other team to wipe Obama off the map. If you then still manage to loose the election, the first order is introspection - not whining about the other guy. Why did we loose? Simple. Because as bad as some things are, what we offered was snakeoil (i.e. the Romney budget) or worse (i.e. vouchercare), meanwhile we managed to **** off and alienate just about every voting block expect churchgoing affluent white males.

My suggestion. Come up with a better plan. Purge the party of the tea party rascals and you may getting some more people to vote for you next time. By the way, I really liked that Huntsman guy. If your best candidate is unelectable because the inmates have taken over the GOP asylum you have a serious problem. Simple as that.

 

[Mosin]

So much hogwash...

Anecdotes can always be used to counter more valid information.

An anecdote to you maybe, but my friend is dead because of failed systems.

 

[A.wayne]

Not so. Life expectancy in the country is determined differently from many others. First, we count stillbirths. Europe doesn't. In fact, Europe doesn't count infant mortality until a certain point, which I have forgotten. That alone goes a long way, not to mention our underclass that refuses to accept treatment for certain things. The refusal of treatment of VD is one of the main reasons for kidney failure in the US. All that should be factored in. We count everyone, and they weight their results.

Single payer will come, but at a large cost. Doctors who I personally know are leaving the system just because of Medicare cuts. Some are taking payments to be your doctor. Pay one GP I know $750 a year, and he will see you. That includes an annual physical and whatever comes up during the year. He won't take Medicaid or Medicare because it isn't profitable. Jan. 1, Medicare becomes virtually worthless because of a 27% reimbursement cut.

Why would a foreign doctor come here anymore with the new system? Expect a severe doctor shortage, and expect a lot of quacks in the system.

A story:

My friend, Garth Phillippe of Eclectic Audio, also known for the brand Incognito, was diagnosed with throat cancer in upstate New York. Because he was seen in Germany for the problem, he was denied coverage because it was considered to be a preexisting condition. The reason is because he had moved here from Germany where he had been getting treatment for a year and a half. Doctors there said he had an infection, so they were giving him antibiotics. Innocently enough, he mentioned this when he sought treatment here, and somehow the insurance company found out. So, he got screwed by our system because he didn't have enough money to pay for treatment out of pocket.

He moved back to Germany for treatment, and was promptly put on a waiting list. Six weeks later, he was assigned a doctor. (Bear in mind that these people were the ones who misdiagnosed him in the beginning.) A few weeks later, he saw one Dr. Lyons who gave him some "medicine" and sent him home until the next appointment a month later. I'm no doctor, but some looking around indicated that he should have had aggressive chemotherapy and radiation ASAP. Anyway, that didn't happen. What did happen is that Garth sent me an e-mail asking me to help him figure out how to work eBay. (He wasn't that computer savvy.) The reason he wanted to know is because Dr. Lyons found out that Garth knew about electronics, and the good doctor wanted to invent a tumor zapping machine. Desperate, Garth complied by buying some old German amps and converting them to God knows what. On this end, I felt completely helpless. Anyway, our greedy system and Germany's incompetent system finished him off, although our system would have most likely detected the problem earlier. If so, and if he had been here instead, he might be alive today.

Another problem is that people aren't charged the same for same services. My wife had a hospital visit, and the hospital charged $17,000. However, they accepted $2,500 as full payment from our insurance company. If we didn't have insurance, we would have been on the hook for the full 17K. That's just not right, but no one in government cares. Why didn't they fix that along with the $100 aspirin and lack of itemization on bills?

Our system is screwed up, but we have taken a wrong left turn along the way to fixing it.

The bottom line is that we are headed toward the German system at lightspeed, and it ain't what you think.




Ya think? Guess again, Sunshine. What makes you think we are so different?

In government, there is zero responsibility for workers. In private business, somebody gets fired. I happen to know our government pollutes. They cover it up better.

The pretense of caring is to suck in the naive, uninitiated voter , this is what our government does best. Obamacare is not about better medical ins , its about taxing the populous under the pretext of better healthcare and service ..

Im sure mafia ran organizations wish they could bill like hospitals ...

Regards

 

[edorr]

The pretense of caring is to suck in the naive, uninitiated voter , this is what our government does best. Obamacare is not about better medical ins , its about taxing the populous under the pretext of better healthcare and service ..

Regards

By contrast, the GOP was trying to appeal to the informed, initiated voter???

Knee jerk response to losing: blame voter stupidity and hurricane sandy.

Reality: Romney's strategy was entirely predicated on voter stupidity (i.e. assume they would believe his budget numbers add up), and it did not work.

Reality: Obamacare is deeply flawed, but it is primarily motivated by a desire to fix a broken system. The status quo is screwed up. If you don't like it, come up with a better plan. There is a huge window of opportunity. Vouchercare just does not cut it.

 

[Mosin]

The pretense of caring is to suck in the naive, uninitiated voter , this is what our government does best. Obamacare is not about better medical ins , its about taxing the populous under the pretext of better healthcare and service ..

Im sure mafia ran organizations wish they could bill like hospitals ...

Regards

Only government has figured out how to bribe you with your own money.