What are the Top Horn Speakers in the World Today? Vox Olympian vs Avantgarde Trio vs ???

[gleeds]

Although perhaps not in the same league dynamically as the largest horns in bigger rooms, here is a hybrid horn design from a respected German producer that is space efficient, will easily fill any smaller to medium sized listening room and is relatively affordable. The model designation is the Corona 4x180 P2c that includes their upgraded carbon paper sandwich bass drivers. US MSRP with carbon sandwich drivers is approximately $40k.
The standard paper driver model excludes the P2c designation and is approximately $6k less costly.

The published frequency response is 32 hz to 23 khz +- 2db with 94db efficiency. I have heard the smaller versions of Blumenhofer "the Genuin series" and found them to be remarkable in terms of tone, dynamics and emotional engagement with single-ended amplification. I am considering bringing in a pair to demonstrate with our Trafomatic Rhapsody parallel SE 300B integrated generating 20 watts/channel which I suspect would make a terrific pairing.

Contact Leo or Alex at Alex Sound for more information.

 

[gleeds]

I apologize for the digression to smaller horn offerings. Clearly this thread is comparing some of the biggest and best made. I'm not sure if there was mention of the larger Cessaro offerings which I also understand are quite good and certainly taller than they are thin as far as the footprint. Also, Wolf Von Langas flagship 33221 Berlin may offer something special (panel and horn) by offering dipole bass combined with a horn mid and tweeter!

 

[LL21]

Hi Lloyd,
I would say that bass is probably closer to what you are used to rather than a big active tower like Genesis. It is a big box woofer setup after all.
As to the rest, first let me state that I have a lot of experience with big planar speakers (Infinity IRS Beta, Apogee, Audiostatic, Acoustat, Stax and DIY BG design) and always appreciated the coherence and transparency. The big Acapella is more like a planar in terms of clarity and coherence and just the realism of window removal.
In terms of dynamics, I think again it is closer to Genesis type speakers but surpasses them…it surpasses all box speakers I have heard.

For sheer realism, I think I have only heard a few that can equal or surpass the Hyperion.

Hi Morricab,

Thank you. Extremely helpful. I have always admired the Apogees of old for what you describe while also have a power and depth that I found unusual in panels (and hence my preference for cones relative to a number of panels other than Apogee). But the alacrity of most panels is nevertheless something very special.

Overall, definitely on the list to hear some day.

 

[LL21]

Not difficult to better these on grandeur and scale

In the world scheme of things perhaps, but for my personal priorities and music, I find big cones are the right balance providing good spacial efficiency and both power and a reasonable amount of nuance. I have not heard all the other kinds of speakers out there, but none yet has tempted me away.

I suspect, over time, I will spend more time with big horns (Destination Audio, Acapella, AG, etc) but their footprints are massive particularly when looking for propulsive deep subterranean bass which is a must-have for me. Hence why I am particularly intrigued by the Hyperion given both its efficiency and potential to really far surpass the power/scale of the big Wilsons...and yet in a very efficient footprint that fits within a living room.

 

[LL21]

I apologize for the digression to smaller horn offerings. Clearly this thread is comparing some of the biggest and best made. I'm not sure if there was mention of the larger Cessaro offerings which I also understand are quite good and certainly taller than they are thin as far as the footprint. Also, Wolf Von Langas flagship 33221 Berlin may offer something special (panel and horn) by offering dipole bass combined with a horn mid and tweeter!

Thank you. Its actually really interesting that on the other post AG Trio, the owner of the WLH Berlin has compared them in-room with the AG Trios and was absolutely blown away by the AG Trios with bass horns. Of course, the AG Trios are physically massive in comparison as well. The Berlins relatively small in comparison if you look at the photos he posted today.

I have heard 2 Cessaros: Liszt and the Beta with the separate bass modules...also very very big!

 

[adrianywu]

Hi Lloyd,
I would say that bass is probably closer to what you are used to rather than a big active tower like Genesis. It is a big box woofer setup after all.
As to the rest, first let me state that I have a lot of experience with big planar speakers (Infinity IRS Beta, Apogee, Audiostatic, Acoustat, Stax and DIY BG design) and always appreciated the coherence and transparency. The big Acapella is more like a planar in terms of clarity and coherence and just the realism of window removal.
In terms of dynamics, I think again it is closer to Genesis type speakers but surpasses them…it surpasses all box speakers I have heard.

For sheer realism, I think I have only heard a few that can equal or surpass the Hyperion.

The ion tweeters play no small part in this. When I substituted my EV T350 with the Acapella ion tweeters, the change was transformational. I have tried all sorts of tweeters before that, including JBL 075, 077, but could not stand the metal diaphragms for this frequency range. The T350 has phenolic diaphragms and has less of the metallic quality, but the ion tweeter is just in a class of its own.

 

[morricab]

Although perhaps not in the same league dynamically as the largest horns in bigger rooms, here is a hybrid horn design from a respected German producer that is space efficient, will easily fill any smaller to medium sized listening room and is relatively affordable. The model designation is the Corona 4x180 P2c that includes their upgraded carbon paper sandwich bass drivers. US MSRP with carbon sandwich drivers is approximately $40k.
The standard paper driver model excludes the P2c designation and is approximately $6k less costly.

The published frequency response is 32 hz to 23 khz +- 2db with 94db efficiency. I have heard the smaller versions of Blumenhofer "the Genuin series" and found them to be remarkable in terms of tone, dynamics and emotional engagement with single-ended amplification. I am considering bringing in a pair to demonstrate with our Trafomatic Rhapsody parallel SE 300B integrated generating 20 watts/channel which I suspect would make a terrific pairing.
View attachment 116708View attachment 116709View attachment 116710View attachment 116710
Contact Leo or Alex at Alex Sound for more information.

Nice looking speaker for a normal room! Similar in size to my Hornings...too bad they aren't higher in sensitivity...I am surprised they can't get with 4 woofers up to at least 97-98dB. Same issue with Acapella La Campenella, which is also a similar concept (multiple smaller woofers with a horn covering a wide frequency range and about 93dB sensitivity. I have heard the La Campanella sound superb with Brinkmann electronics (one of the few times I have liked an SS amp) and pretty good with a SET (wasn't one of the better SETs I have owned though). WAF prevented a purchase.

These will work well with higher powered SETs (say 20 watts plus) but will probably struggle with 300B/2A3 type amps. That question is interesting to me because my Hornings at 98dB work very well in my room with a 3.5 watt 2A3 amp...sounds great in fact.

I had seen this speaker before and was curious but didn't find an opportunity to hear it. The Genuin models I have heard were, OK, but not good enough that I was seriously considering the brand. The Corona models are more interesting to me from the design. I have to see where I can hear it. The idea of the FLH of sorts on the midbass drivers could yield interesting results.

 

[LL21]

The ion tweeters play no small part in this. When I substituted my EV T350 with the Acapella ion tweeters, the change was transformational. I have tried all sorts of tweeters before that, including JBL 075, 077, but could not stand the metal diaphragms for this frequency range. The T350 has phenolic diaphragms and has less of the metallic quality, but the ion tweeter is just in a class of its own.

Thank you! Very very interesting to know. Look forward to hearing them.

 

[Kingrex]

I heard the 18 Coherent at a dealer in Portland OR. Not the best setup at the time. But there is something to these. I think they are worth a listen.

Coherent Audio Speaker. Sonically Superior.

Sonically superior, high efficient speakers with unique designs unlike other high efficiency speakers.

trueaudiophile.com

Maybe by some audiophile standards they are to affordable and wont be considered. I think that is a mistake.

 

[Don Reid]

The ion tweeters play no small part in this. When I substituted my EV T350 with the Acapella ion tweeters, the change was transformational. I have tried all sorts of tweeters before that, including JBL 075, 077, but could not stand the metal diaphragms for this frequency range. The T350 has phenolic diaphragms and has less of the metallic quality, but the ion tweeter is just in a class of its own.

adrianywu, I am very interested in the Acapella ion tweeters as replacements for Fostex t900a bullet tweeters with my DIY horns, but I'm not sure my midrange, AER BD3 drivers in Oris 150 horns, can "keep up" with the ion tweeters. I am very interested in what midranges you have combined with the ion tweeters. Do you hear any compatibility problems with your rig?

 

[adrianywu]

adrianywu, I am very interested in the Acapella ion tweeters as replacements for Fostex t900a bullet tweeters with my DIY horns, but I'm not sure my midrange, AER BD3 drivers in Oris 150 horns, can "keep up" with the ion tweeters. I am very interested in what midranges you have combined with the ion tweeters. Do you hear any compatibility problems with your rig?

I can't really tell you whether the BD3 drivers will work. I am using Classic Audio field coil compression drivers with 4" beryllium diaphragms. These are probably some of the fastest mid-range drivers available, and they work like hand in glove with the plasma tweeters.. The Acapella speakers also use compression drivers, and they integrate well. I think you should ask your Acapella dealer to let you do a home trial first.

 

[MRJAZZ]

The ion tweeters play no small part in this. When I substituted my EV T350 with the Acapella ion tweeters, the change was transformational. I have tried all sorts of tweeters before that, including JBL 075, 077, but could not stand the metal diaphragms for this frequency range. The T350 has phenolic diaphragms and has less of the metallic quality, but the ion tweeter is just in a class of its own.

At what frequency are you crossing over your Acapella Ion tweeters?

 

[bonzo75]

adrianywu, I am very interested in the Acapella ion tweeters as replacements for Fostex t900a bullet tweeters with my DIY horns, but I'm not sure my midrange, AER BD3 drivers in Oris 150 horns, can "keep up" with the ion tweeters. I am very interested in what midranges you have combined with the ion tweeters. Do you hear any compatibility problems with your rig?

the whole point of AER drivers is to run them full range as much as possible, i understand some adding a woofer below to try a two way. Adding a tweeter makes even less sense

 

[morricab]

I can't really tell you whether the BD3 drivers will work. I am using Classic Audio field coil compression drivers with 4" beryllium diaphragms. These are probably some of the fastest mid-range drivers available, and they work like hand in glove with the plasma tweeters.. The Acapella speakers also use compression drivers, and they integrate well. I think you should ask your Acapella dealer to let you do a home trial first.

Actually I think Acapella specifically does not use compression drivers with their horns. One of the few who doesn’t…

 

[morricab]

the whole point of AER drivers is to run them full range as much as possible, i understand some adding a woofer below to try a two way. Adding a tweeter makes even less sense

It makes sense if the whizzer cone is removed because the whizzer is primarily just chaotic breakup. It will never reproduce highs as accurately as a good compression or plasma tweeter. Then the natural roll off of the driver can be blended with a good tweeter 1st order to result in a very smooth transition. I have heard this work well with two speaker brands; Reference 3A and Horning. Lansche also does something similar with the model 4.1 that Thomask has on this forum.

 

[bonzo75]

It makes sense if the whizzer cone is removed because the whizzer is primarily just chaotic breakup. It will never reproduce highs as accurately as a good compression or plasma tweeter. Then the natural roll off of the driver can be blended with a good tweeter 1st order to result in a very smooth transition. I have heard this work well with two speaker brands; Reference 3A and Horning. Lansche also does something similar with the model 4.1 that Thomask has on this forum.

the BD4 and 5 highs are among the best Bill, G and I have heard. You might generalise about whizzes cones. AER magic is also in the crossover less single driver function. If someone wants to run a design with tweeters, try should try a different speaker. The Lansche models or Acapella are pretty poor compared to the pnoe

 

[adrianywu]

I am crossing over at 5K with 24dB slope. I am using an electronic crossover even though the tweeters have a built in high pass filter. Depending on the high frequency dispersion of your drivers, you might want to play around with the crossover frequency. The tweeters use a second order network. I favor 4th order.

 

[morricab]

the BD4 and 5 highs are among the best Bill, G and I have heard. You might generalise about whizzes cones. AER magic is also in the crossover less single driver function. If someone wants to run a design with tweeters, try should try a different speaker. The Lansche models or Acapella are pretty poor compared to the pnoe

I have found that some people are sensitive to the issues with whizzers and some are not. People also claimed that Cube Audio has solved the whizzer sound issues...I beg to differ. Whatever their strengths (and they are the same basic strengths as AER drivers...although lower sensitivity) I still, everytime, the artifacts (break up distortions) from the whizzer. I have heard AER drivers several times and I hear the same issues in the highs...whatever the reason it bothers me. Do I like the single driver magic? Yes indeed but not at the expense of what I hear as unrealistic highs.

I think you are right about Lansche's current offerings, which are basically conventional speakers with an ion tweeter; however, the older models, Goa, Cubus and the 4.1 are significantly different. I had a customer with the Lansche Goa, which was a high sensitivity horn design (102 dB) with active bass and the Cubus was a large mid-horn, ion tweeter and an 18 inch woofer...at 96dB sensitivity. The 4.1 used the Supravox 210-2000 driver + ion tweeter and active bass...this was probably around 98dB sensitivity. I never heard the 4.1 (Thomask has a pair on this forum) but the Goa and Cubus were very good speakers...even for the high money.

I have been both very impressed and somewhat disappointed by Acapella. At their best, they sound very realistic and alive. I think the $25K La Campanella is good value for the performance I have heard from it....better than many other more expensive speakers. The price ramp though is very steep and I don't think the value tracks. That said, the Hyperion at Munich HiFi Deluxe show this year was very convincing if one sat in the front middle seats.

The one time I heard a Pnoe was in Munich and it sounded poor...not just kind of ok, really bad. Do I believe that to be representative? No, but it shows that it requires the same level of care in setup as any other speaker to sound good. I have only heard an Acapella sound close to that bad one time at a dealer in Munich (Cecila with all Nagra SS electronics). Ironically, one of the best sounding Acapella La Campenella setups I heard was also at that shop with all Brinkmann electronics.

 

[bonzo75]

I have found that some people are sensitive to the issues with whizzers and some are not. People also claimed that Cube Audio has solved the whizzer sound issues...I beg to differ. Whatever their strengths (and they are the same basic strengths as AER drivers...although lower sensitivity) I still, everytime, the artifacts (break up distortions) from the whizzer. I have heard AER drivers several times and I hear the same issues in the highs...whatever the reason it bothers me. Do I like the single driver magic? Yes indeed but not at the expense of what I hear as unrealistic highs.

I think you are right about Lansche's current offerings, which are basically conventional speakers with an ion tweeter; however, the older models, Goa, Cubus and the 4.1 are significantly different. I had a customer with the Lansche Goa, which was a high sensitivity horn design (102 dB) with active bass and the Cubus was a large mid-horn, ion tweeter and an 18 inch woofer...at 96dB sensitivity. The 4.1 used the Supravox 210-2000 driver + ion tweeter and active bass...this was probably around 98dB sensitivity. I never heard the 4.1 (Thomask has a pair on this forum) but the Goa and Cubus were very good speakers...even for the high money.

I have been both very impressed and somewhat disappointed by Acapella. At their best, they sound very realistic and alive. I think the $25K La Campanella is good value for the performance I have heard from it....better than many other more expensive speakers. The price ramp though is very steep and I don't think the value tracks. That said, the Hyperion at Munich HiFi Deluxe show this year was very convincing if one sat in the front middle seats.

The one time I heard a Pnoe was in Munich and it sounded poor...not just kind of ok, really bad. Do I believe that to be representative? No, but it shows that it requires the same level of care in setup as any other speaker to sound good. I have only heard an Acapella sound close to that bad one time at a dealer in Munich (Cecila with all Nagra SS electronics). Ironically, one of the best sounding Acapella La Campenella setups I heard was also at that shop with all Brinkmann electronics.

I don't like Cube audio which I have heard in 3 set ups, and the Pnoe sounds poor in Munich. We have been over this. I don't see the commonality in Pnoe and Cube in terms of sound.

 

[christoph]

I don't like Cube audio which I have heard in 3 set ups, and the Pnoe sounds poor in Munich. We have been over this. I don't see the commonality in Pnoe and Cube in terms of sound.

Of the three times you have heard the Cubus, what were the amps driving the Cubus?

I heard the Cubus sound excellent with (I think it was) Thrax and several times REALLY horrible with Mola Mola