What are the Top Horn Speakers in the World Today? Vox Olympian vs Avantgarde Trio vs ???
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Gentlemen, is it possible to design a horn speaker without DSP, outside the bass frequencies (as Trio does very finely)?
Or would large horn speakers get too incoherent - hence not world class?
Furthermore, does it make sense to do DSP and digitize that ultimate SET amp?
Or would large horn speakers get too incoherent - hence not world class?
Furthermore, does it make sense to do DSP and digitize that ultimate SET amp?
Not sure I understand the context of your question. There no reason you can't use passive crossovers with horns. There are plenty of passive horn systems out there.
Rob
So many ways to do this without DSP. If you take the bass section out as an active tower for example, you can then have horns for the mids and treble. Otherwise you are looking are HUGE sizes and impractical for 99% of homes. The Trios are ok to my ears, but not the best horns out there IMO. Better to have open backed bass, to keep up with the horn, and reduce room nodes / issues.
On coherent, another huge subject, but careful design can make it as coherent as any speaker. Horns to my ears do things other speakers struggle with - dynamics for example. I can see anyone building their own horn speakers as getting into deep water quickly, it is a complex issue. And probably why IMO some brands have nailed it, and others not so much. My personal favourite horn speakers are Aries Cerat.
I did not appreciate you have heard the AG Trio G3. What do you think of it? I would genuinely be interested to read any detailed commentary you might care to share.
On my side, I have never been inspired by horns...and thus never was particularly inspired to keep digging. I heard some with Audio Exotics in HK who sure are passionate about sound and obsessive about their setups. Then I heard Cessaros locally...same.
Then I just happened to hear the AG Trio G3s with dual-basshorns on each side. And came away extraordinarily impressed. If I ever moved that way (which I could absolutely see), I would need to check in on a few areas where I know I had some minor questionmarks which I intuitively came away thinking would be answered in the affirmative...but nevertheless would want to do before making a firm commimtent. Nevertheless, overall, extraordinarily impressed and it rapidly ended up after about 90 minutes in the top 2, possibly 3 for me. (Rockport Arrakis being the other...and then there are elements of the Genesis 1 which super impressed me as well).
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Not sure I understand the context of your question. There no reason you can't use passive crossovers with horns. There are plenty of passive horn systems out there.
Rob
Sure, thanks for your reply. Some additional context: I was catching up and talking to a buddy who heard the Cessaros at Munich. He mentioned that Cessaros sounded out of sync at that show... with all the show caveats...
but maybe it takes DSP to bring all the drivers to sound together?
Hi LL,
I only heard TRIO 3 at shows. I was blown away by the
- bass (some of the best I have heard, but mbl xtreme may be better)
- micro dynamic emotional shadings (best I've ever heard)
- macro dynamics (best I have heard).
They didn't seem to be of one piece and were a bit strident, but it was a show and they were using itron solid state internal amps or maybe it was something else causing the aggressiveness...
I only heard the smaller Cessaros at shows. The US distributor plays real music records and you can get lost in his room for hours. But hard for me to judge true quality
I've never been inspired by box speakers. Only box speakers that I can last more than 30 seconds with are stenheim, kharma, and vivid. I can listen to them at friends' places, but would never purchase, excepting smaller vivids for a secondary home system. Rockports are ok, but sound dead to me; yet they definitely don't annoy me like other box brands.
Thank you! Super helpful, and I have read a lot of your comments over the years and 'filed them away' mentally.
Interestingly, in your listening points...we appear to agree on the strident point. That was what I was referring to in my own listening notes above where I had an issue that I would want to go back and double check is an aberration of setup/system. For me, specifically, there was a touch of 'hardness' to the sound particularly in the treble...there was incredible nuance and micro-nuance, but somehow 'hard' and not 'supple'. That said, I was listening to the AG Trio G3s with Emm Labs MTRX Ref Monos...something 1000 watts in 8 ohms...i had NO IDEA why they made that pairing, but they had clearly set it up for a client who was coming in to audition.
That said, there is hard, and there is hard. This hardness was clearly there but in the context of how exacting the entire system clearly was...I felt intuitively convinced that with different system setup (physically within the room and also with components), that would completely go away. I felt somehow it was just such an exacting system, it was displaying an element of hardness that was coming from elsewhere in the system or room.
And when I discussed this with the dealer, he gave me an exhausted look and said 'these are the toughest speakers to set up we've ever had' because they are so exacting.
On box speakers, I am intrigued by what a lot of the newer (at least for me, newer) designs (Zellaton, Stenheim) are doing...and also what some of the newer generations of speakers coming from the likes of Marten and Von Schweikert as well as Evolution Acoustics (Mike Lavigne's speakers) are doing.
Martion Orgon 4way horn active with class A amps
soundandlights.eu
Scroll down you find it in the page
Martion Audiosysteme Products - Sound And Lights Professional Services
Whether in the analog or the digital realm, everything is custom built by Martion to provide the utmost sound quality, from the Lola compact speakers up to the Orgon flagship.
soundandlights.eu
Scroll down you find it in the page
Great post. Thanks. We all imagine and perceive stereo sound differently, so don't let my tastes dissuade you from your dreams and passions.
The last Avantgarde I heard was the mezzo with phasemation at axpona, and the stridency didn't bother me... yet it was a show , so the system was not "magic"... so maybe solid state contributes, as one of several things, to stridency...
I believe the only way to know what one's ultimate system is to hear as many systems as possible. I wish I had time, like Bonzo and Ron, to hear so many great systems are wonderful about sharing their experiences. But I just don't have time right now in my life for this. When I get serious about my bucket list system, I will do the due diligence. If someone told me that I had to buy now, I wouldn't get a horn, as I am uncertain about possible downsides. Instead, I would get the MBL extreme.
I totally respect that and am in a not dissimilar place regarding time. I can dip into WBF for 5-15 minutes a few times a week, but I do not have an hour let alone half a day to go listen to a system...in fact, I have only heard 1 system really properly (ie, 90 minutes or more) outside of the house (the AG Trio G3) since probably 2017. Interestingly, one system I did pop in to hear for 5 minutes was the MBL Extreme! The 4-column beast...very impressive, but only had 5 minutes.Great post. Thanks. We all imagine and perceive stereo sound differently, so don't let my tastes dissuade you from your dreams and passions.
The last Avantgarde I heard was the mezzo with phasemation at axpona, and the stridency didn't bother me... yet it was a show , so the system was not "magic"... so maybe solid state contributes, as one of several things, to stridency...
I believe the only way to know what one's ultimate system is to hear as many systems as possible. I wish I had time, like Bonzo and Ron, to hear so many great systems are wonderful about sharing their experiences. But I just don't have time right now in my life for this. When I get serious about my bucket list system, I will do the due diligence. If someone told me that I had to buy now, I wouldn't get a horn, as I am uncertain about possible downsides. Instead, I would get the MBL extreme.
The new Martion speaker sounded quite good in Munich.Martion Orgon 4way horn active with class A amps
Martion Audiosysteme Products - Sound And Lights Professional Services
Whether in the analog or the digital realm, everything is custom built by Martion to provide the utmost sound quality, from the Lola compact speakers up to the Orgon flagship.
Scroll down you find it in the page
Have you heard any of the new Marten reference series? The older Marten Coltrane I, II...or the new Marten Coltrane Extremes? Curious as to what you think.
While I still think the AG Trio G3 is my reigning favorite, its size is dauntingly big on the floor. And all speakers have strengths and weaknesses.
I know you liked the Acapella Hyperion. Was curious if you have any thoughts on Marten Coltrane series.
The aeonor works as point soure from 100hz-20khz never see anything like this before.
It took 21 years to perfect it(running gag LP magazine)
Der mit dem Trichter tanzt - Lautsprecher Martion Aeonor | LP - Magazin
Erleben Sie fundierte Tests und Reviews aus der Welt der HiFi-Kultur. Ob Lautsprecher, Verstärker oder Plattenspieler – wir bieten Ihnen detaillierte Analysen, Klangtests und Expertenmeinungen zu den neuesten HiFi-Produkten. Entdecken Sie, wie Sie Ihr Sound-Erlebnis auf das nächste Level heben...
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Review
Conclusion
Martion's Aeonor system is undoubtedly one of the most stunning music reproduction devices available for money and good words.
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Thanks...yes, I did actually know that. The reason I asked is because whenever I see Morricab online, I take the opportunity to ask his opinion. I also think the Martens were at the Munich Show as well...and I have been reading up on speakers that use Accuton drivers recently as I have not heard any myself yet.
Yes, I heard several models over the last couple years. What do I think of them? I don’t as they really don’t leave much impression on me. All I remember was the highs sounded really weird in 2024 but the same models sounded a bit different this year, less overly soft. I think you can get as good or better sound for far less money.
Interesting...I might PM you so as not to distract this thread any further. Thank you!
Wow! And I thought I was busy! What I used to do when I was finding my tastes, and what some of my buddies do, is when they go on a vacation, they take a half a day away from their families to stop by to hear something. Surprisingly, many dealers have very mediocre rooms with VERY expensive gear, but you certainly get a taste, and can determine if it's something worth pursuing.
I recently had the pleasure of hearing two models of Odeon horns with various amplification and front ends. In the past, I had ignored them because with wood finishes for both the enclosure and horns, I felt that they looked a bit too black forest for my more contemporary taste. This time, the speakers were finished in walnut, with horns painted in high-gloss black, which was a change I liked.
The two models auditioned were the smaller three-way Semper, featuring a 13" woofer, and the top-line Carnegie, which with a 15" woofer and ALNICO magnets on the horns. At 93 dB and 97 dB, respectively, they will work well with low-power SE amplifiers. However, on both occasions, I hear them with high-power ones at 40 and 70 watts/channel, respectively. In this setting, both speakers offered scale, detail, and dynamics, and presented one of the most realistic soundstages I have heard.
In full disclosure, due to my experience auditioning Odeon, Hear This will partner with Odeon's US importer to showcase our latest electronics from Trafomatic Audio at the New York Audio Show in October. The presentation will feature the Carnegie powered by the Pandora monoblocks (40 watts push-pull Class A SE output with SV-111 tubes). Or if the audio Gods cooperate, a new design from Sasa that's pure SE putting out 70 watts/channel. Based upon my experience, having more power available to power these particular
horns brings a whole new level of realism to the proceedings.
The two models auditioned were the smaller three-way Semper, featuring a 13" woofer, and the top-line Carnegie, which with a 15" woofer and ALNICO magnets on the horns. At 93 dB and 97 dB, respectively, they will work well with low-power SE amplifiers. However, on both occasions, I hear them with high-power ones at 40 and 70 watts/channel, respectively. In this setting, both speakers offered scale, detail, and dynamics, and presented one of the most realistic soundstages I have heard.
In full disclosure, due to my experience auditioning Odeon, Hear This will partner with Odeon's US importer to showcase our latest electronics from Trafomatic Audio at the New York Audio Show in October. The presentation will feature the Carnegie powered by the Pandora monoblocks (40 watts push-pull Class A SE output with SV-111 tubes). Or if the audio Gods cooperate, a new design from Sasa that's pure SE putting out 70 watts/channel. Based upon my experience, having more power available to power these particular
horns brings a whole new level of realism to the proceedings.
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