Now that is very cool! By chance did you take before-and-after waterfall measurements to see how effective it was, and at what frequencies? inquiring minds want to know!
Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
What is the best acoustic material to place on the floor?
- Thread starter caesar
- Start date
Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
+1 I went with silk hand woven from Turkey with a honey comb rubber under lay as you say looks good a hi WAF I could print out a chart of the WAF before and after silk carpets.
Steve,
Which NoiseOut product did Bonnie use under your carpet? Paradise Wool, Vibramat or Acoustic Carpet?
Which drapery company did you work with to make your drapes with the Lumitex lining?
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I have Noise Out under my under pad.
The company is a large interior designer company based in Costa Mesa near South Coast shopping center
The company is a large interior designer company based in Costa Mesa near South Coast shopping center
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Noise Out comes in large rolls and is extremely heavy but will definitely go under your carpet
I checked out the link you provided and found that they have two kinds of under carpet products. I shall investigate!
In my room Bonnie spec'd the Vibramat, which is a NoiseOut like mass loaded vinyl bonded to a spongy carpet pad. On top of that there will be a layer of Lumitex before the EarthWeave wool carpet on top.
Won't those layers result in a height of over an inch? What specifically is Bonnie trying to accomplish with those products together?
Sound not escaping your listening room? Wideband frequency absorption? What else?
Which product serves which objective?
Vibramat is 7/16", carpet is 3/8", so under an inch. The Lumitex thickness is not really material at .35mm.
Full write-up of the acoustic solution will be provided after completion—I spoke with Bonnie a couple days ago with some of the same questions you asked. The floor in my space would be like Steve's room (though I know his floor is structurally more robust) as mine is joists over crawlspace. Rather than mischaracterize the floor treatment, I'll wait for Bonnie's write-up. Her crew will be here to install wall treatments week of Jan 9th, carpet install the following week. I am close to being able to put my room back together.
I'll copy these last couple posts to my room thread so as not to further hijack this one.
G'day maties,
Bonzo over here, introduced me to Auralex- acoustic treatment solutions- superb products! They are remarkable and cost far less than anything I have come across. Not too sure whether they would do large coverings for acoustic treatment but with a few Auralex pads under each component, including speakers and all gear where it is critical, will do a fine job just well enough without having to go through extensive floor mods and carpet work, in my opinion.
Just my 50cts, and I plan to get Auralex for all components now including the fish tank! After all, the fishies must swim with no good vibrations coming from the active bass in the Ethos... The Auralex is a remarkable product! I would contact them for special custom orders just to see if they would oblige or at least advise otherwise...
Cheers, RJ
Bonzo over here, introduced me to Auralex- acoustic treatment solutions- superb products! They are remarkable and cost far less than anything I have come across. Not too sure whether they would do large coverings for acoustic treatment but with a few Auralex pads under each component, including speakers and all gear where it is critical, will do a fine job just well enough without having to go through extensive floor mods and carpet work, in my opinion.
Just my 50cts, and I plan to get Auralex for all components now including the fish tank! After all, the fishies must swim with no good vibrations coming from the active bass in the Ethos... The Auralex is a remarkable product! I would contact them for special custom orders just to see if they would oblige or at least advise otherwise...
Cheers, RJ
Big fan of Auralex, which we use under the Subwoofer...their big Gramma.
Meanwhile, here is what we used under our floorboards. Not an acoustician thing, but apparently more standard for general floorboard construction. Still seemed to have noise insulation properties. It is 5mm thick. Vibramat comes in 3mm, 5mm, 7mm and 10mm thickness...this is for installation under floating timber floorboards (which is what we've got).
"Natura Sonic Gold acoustic underlay offers exceptional performance for comfort, support, and acoustic reduction, over 24db. This product also offers excellent thermal insulation properties making it ideal for underfloor heating systems.
Made with non-toxic and non-dusting materials this underlay will effectively even out minor floor imperfections.
A gold foil vapour barrier with a 200mm over lap acts as an excellent DPM (damp proof membrane) to protect your floor for moisture attached to a 65kg/m3 high density foam core with high compressive and recovery strength.
Product Summary:
Approx. Density (kg/m3) 65
Approx. PE Foam Roll Weight (g/m2) 353.16g
Thermal Conductivity ( W/mK) 0.048
Sound Reduction (dB) >24dB"
Meanwhile, here is what we used under our floorboards. Not an acoustician thing, but apparently more standard for general floorboard construction. Still seemed to have noise insulation properties. It is 5mm thick. Vibramat comes in 3mm, 5mm, 7mm and 10mm thickness...this is for installation under floating timber floorboards (which is what we've got).
"Natura Sonic Gold acoustic underlay offers exceptional performance for comfort, support, and acoustic reduction, over 24db. This product also offers excellent thermal insulation properties making it ideal for underfloor heating systems.
Made with non-toxic and non-dusting materials this underlay will effectively even out minor floor imperfections.
A gold foil vapour barrier with a 200mm over lap acts as an excellent DPM (damp proof membrane) to protect your floor for moisture attached to a 65kg/m3 high density foam core with high compressive and recovery strength.
Product Summary:
Approx. Density (kg/m3) 65
Approx. PE Foam Roll Weight (g/m2) 353.16g
Thermal Conductivity ( W/mK) 0.048
Sound Reduction (dB) >24dB"
Absorption is the most common recommendation. The primary reason for this is it's usually the closest first reflection. Sidewalls are usually further away.
Sheepskins and carpets , the shirdaks are made from sheepswoolvelt , absorbs beautifull in a natural way
For absorbing bass freq im gonna buy some bass traps probably
http://www.shirdak.nl/
For absorbing bass freq im gonna buy some bass traps probably
http://www.shirdak.nl/
The concert hall is setting the stage for the live musical events' tonal balance; not all are the same, you're jumping to a conclusion and generalization. Some concert halls have concrete halls, some wood, some carpet, what then? On top of that what you hear in your system is a reproduction of a live or contrived recorded event, it's not the same as a live venue. Net - you're off base IMO and IME.
you could be right. I've not done extensive tests as to what works best. however, that's how Chris Huston, my acoustical designer explained it. he designs studios and listening rooms and teaches acoustics. he makes clear distinctions between mixing studios, mastering studios, and listening rooms as far as design. and small room acoustics and large space acoustics. yet that ideal listening rooms and concert halls do have some common elements. the goal is balance and liveliness. and that rooms are not fully realized on paper, they need tuning once real.
Chris Huston - Wikipedia
and I'm very happy with what I hear compared to any other room I've been in. but that part is just anecdotal. I don't personally have any broad based knowledge....but Chris does.
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Yes, the room the room the rooom!
Very tricky to get right and even then is never perfect, nor is our hearing!
When I purchased my final speakers back in Sept 2018, they were bigger than the little apartment we lived in! Wifey called it our beloved shoebox. Had various speakers in there, from Maggie's, Quads, SF Elipsa to even Wilson's! Ended up with ML full range stats and the rest is history.
That little shoebox measured about 15ft wide and about 30ft length, which included a very small sitting and kitchen area, so basically a fully enclosed space with 4 walls on all sides, and only 7ft ceilings, pretty much a shoebox! In fact I could touch the ceiling with two fingers, ok being 6ft3 also helps but just saying. I think in this particular room setting, such large speakers were never going to sound good or even at half their potential. Small monitors would have suited better. But I've always loved those bigger speakers, especially panel types (ESL's and ribbons).
We lived in this shoebox for 15yrs then when we finally finished our new home, I was too excited to move in that I transported the system and forget about the rest of the family! Ha, including the two cats. The wifey wasn't too happy.
After many trials and errors, I really didn't have much skills or knowledge in open plan living spaces to make large electrostats work. So I called in the ghost busters. It comprised a team of three, one stat tech, an Acoustics expert who has set up similar systems in open plan spaces and the other chap specialised in anti-vibration systems, he was a techie from Iso Acoustics.
So they began their work and after approx 3 days... few glasses of wine and cheese... magic!
They had set-up everything in near perfection or least to closest potential since I had a damn hallway running all the way down from the right stat panel all the way to the main door! So they adjusted the stats so that there was a fixed back wall / front wall, just towards the inside fin of that stat panel. Only about a foot away, lies that hallway, so this doesn't interfere with the back sound wave too much.
1. Iso Acoustics Gaia II's were placed under each stat panel, which were then placed on the hard tiled surface. The Gaia's suspension system works better on solid floors rather than on soft surfaces.
2. Carpeting was placed around the system gear and in the centre, and the sides were cordened off with seating, 4 seater and 3 seater sofas. The dinning area was directly behind the large 4 seater and that had a further 15ft behind it, so plenty of space for the system to breathe.
3. The Acoustics tech mentioned several things from echo to overly damping treatments. It all depends on the type of speakers and listening habits. So if you prefer those full HF extensions and limitless dynamics then over-damping the room will kill those natural overtones. At the same time, if you prefer a softer approach and very low levels, then adding on acoustic panelling and wall treatments will certainly make the room dull. The key is to try a bit at a time and see what suits, then stop at a point when you are at least 90% satisfied. If you push further you may ruin things and there's no such thing as 100%, not even our hearing. As we age... that's another issue. So there's no point in trying to make things perfect, just enjoy the music whiles you can!
4. So what they did was created a dedicated listening space within an open plan space. Once that was achieved, the final icing or cherry on top was adding the sub. We tried 2 subs, that was good if the room was even larger or if my listening position was much further away. I'm sitting at only 9ft away, and most of my listening sessions are way past midnight. I'm after a very intimate, very relaxed atmosphere, one that is totally engaging, and has an envelope affect, as if the music wraps around you. So with that, just having one fine sub-woofer achieved everything I was looking for.
At the end of the day, no one solution is ever going to work in any room setting. Not one! All rooms are totally different and very unique in every way. Only you can know your room well and if you're struggling to understand its parameters then call in the Seal Team! These are chaps who've spent numerous hours and years across various room settings, so they usually come up with something that works! Once they've done the initial layout, whiles you're there then you can always tweak things slightly to cater to your personal preferences. This is a must whiles they're there, for once they leave then sorting all by yourself is another nightmare. Arguments and debates are good! Arriving at the best possible arrangements and room settings, even with or without compromises is inevitable! They even added a thick carpet under the dinning table! I asked why because the table has a thick sheet of glass on top, which is supported by a polymer plus stainless steel base, which in turn reflects sound waves. This can also cause unwanted noise and reflections, by adding the carpet under the table full length, sorted this out. Who the heck knew that!
I thought by letting my two kitties roam around whiles music was playing would absorb those unwanted reflections but those dopy cats just sit in one bloody place, utterly useless!
On day 4, it all came together, and with the sub placed directly in the centre, flanked by the stats on either side, that gave the best 3D holographic detail by far! It took me nearly a whole year to work this half way out but this team took only 3-4 days to get it right. Of course on day 4 there was more wine & cheese plus bickies served with olives... whatever. Anyhoo, it was marvellous!
Now it's just a beautiful thing!
Cheers, and enjoy those fine tunes!
Woof! RJ
Very tricky to get right and even then is never perfect, nor is our hearing!
When I purchased my final speakers back in Sept 2018, they were bigger than the little apartment we lived in! Wifey called it our beloved shoebox. Had various speakers in there, from Maggie's, Quads, SF Elipsa to even Wilson's! Ended up with ML full range stats and the rest is history.
That little shoebox measured about 15ft wide and about 30ft length, which included a very small sitting and kitchen area, so basically a fully enclosed space with 4 walls on all sides, and only 7ft ceilings, pretty much a shoebox! In fact I could touch the ceiling with two fingers, ok being 6ft3 also helps but just saying. I think in this particular room setting, such large speakers were never going to sound good or even at half their potential. Small monitors would have suited better. But I've always loved those bigger speakers, especially panel types (ESL's and ribbons).
We lived in this shoebox for 15yrs then when we finally finished our new home, I was too excited to move in that I transported the system and forget about the rest of the family! Ha, including the two cats. The wifey wasn't too happy.
After many trials and errors, I really didn't have much skills or knowledge in open plan living spaces to make large electrostats work. So I called in the ghost busters. It comprised a team of three, one stat tech, an Acoustics expert who has set up similar systems in open plan spaces and the other chap specialised in anti-vibration systems, he was a techie from Iso Acoustics.
So they began their work and after approx 3 days... few glasses of wine and cheese... magic!
They had set-up everything in near perfection or least to closest potential since I had a damn hallway running all the way down from the right stat panel all the way to the main door! So they adjusted the stats so that there was a fixed back wall / front wall, just towards the inside fin of that stat panel. Only about a foot away, lies that hallway, so this doesn't interfere with the back sound wave too much.
1. Iso Acoustics Gaia II's were placed under each stat panel, which were then placed on the hard tiled surface. The Gaia's suspension system works better on solid floors rather than on soft surfaces.
2. Carpeting was placed around the system gear and in the centre, and the sides were cordened off with seating, 4 seater and 3 seater sofas. The dinning area was directly behind the large 4 seater and that had a further 15ft behind it, so plenty of space for the system to breathe.
3. The Acoustics tech mentioned several things from echo to overly damping treatments. It all depends on the type of speakers and listening habits. So if you prefer those full HF extensions and limitless dynamics then over-damping the room will kill those natural overtones. At the same time, if you prefer a softer approach and very low levels, then adding on acoustic panelling and wall treatments will certainly make the room dull. The key is to try a bit at a time and see what suits, then stop at a point when you are at least 90% satisfied. If you push further you may ruin things and there's no such thing as 100%, not even our hearing. As we age... that's another issue. So there's no point in trying to make things perfect, just enjoy the music whiles you can!
4. So what they did was created a dedicated listening space within an open plan space. Once that was achieved, the final icing or cherry on top was adding the sub. We tried 2 subs, that was good if the room was even larger or if my listening position was much further away. I'm sitting at only 9ft away, and most of my listening sessions are way past midnight. I'm after a very intimate, very relaxed atmosphere, one that is totally engaging, and has an envelope affect, as if the music wraps around you. So with that, just having one fine sub-woofer achieved everything I was looking for.
At the end of the day, no one solution is ever going to work in any room setting. Not one! All rooms are totally different and very unique in every way. Only you can know your room well and if you're struggling to understand its parameters then call in the Seal Team! These are chaps who've spent numerous hours and years across various room settings, so they usually come up with something that works! Once they've done the initial layout, whiles you're there then you can always tweak things slightly to cater to your personal preferences. This is a must whiles they're there, for once they leave then sorting all by yourself is another nightmare. Arguments and debates are good! Arriving at the best possible arrangements and room settings, even with or without compromises is inevitable! They even added a thick carpet under the dinning table! I asked why because the table has a thick sheet of glass on top, which is supported by a polymer plus stainless steel base, which in turn reflects sound waves. This can also cause unwanted noise and reflections, by adding the carpet under the table full length, sorted this out. Who the heck knew that!
I thought by letting my two kitties roam around whiles music was playing would absorb those unwanted reflections but those dopy cats just sit in one bloody place, utterly useless!
On day 4, it all came together, and with the sub placed directly in the centre, flanked by the stats on either side, that gave the best 3D holographic detail by far! It took me nearly a whole year to work this half way out but this team took only 3-4 days to get it right. Of course on day 4 there was more wine & cheese plus bickies served with olives... whatever. Anyhoo, it was marvellous!
Now it's just a beautiful thing!
Cheers, and enjoy those fine tunes!
Woof! RJ
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Understood, but that analogy, which I hear often (and I've played in studios for years) doesn't work. Maybe it's time for a new consultant
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