I had them on Kharma Exquisites a few years ago, midrange is very good if not pushed, bass isn't anything to get excited about. They're nonlinear when pushed beyond the first 10 watts with audible distortion as you push them harder.
david
What SET amplifiers have Realistic Midrange Magic AND have the Great BASS? Rock your Horns!
- Thread starter caesar
- Start date
I had them on Kharma Exquisites a few years ago, midrange is very good if not pushed, bass isn't anything to get excited about. They're nonlinear when pushed beyond the first 10 watts with audible distortion as you push them harder.
david
For me the solution was, SET amp for 150hz and upwards and solid state for below that. I use a custom made dual output passive preamp to match the gains. Outputs of the passive are also matched to amps 10k ohm and 100k ohm. I love the sound I am getting. It can play +-3db from 18hz to 20khz. I like a curve of +3db from the bass to -3db in the treble, like a slowly falling response from bass to treble. It sounds more natural and engaging than a completely flat response. I fill the 18hz to 36hz, the sub octave with a full scale tapped horn. 36hz to 150hz with dual TAD 1601b br boxes and the rest front loaded horns.
The set amps are LM 503pa mono blocks with WE replica tubes all around. I have tried a few other amps and some people preffer them over LM but I do not know if those people have heard these monoblocks. I actually tried more expensive products and decided upon these for their sound.
The set amps are LM 503pa mono blocks with WE replica tubes all around. I have tried a few other amps and some people preffer them over LM but I do not know if those people have heard these monoblocks. I actually tried more expensive products and decided upon these for their sound.
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Do not get me wrong, what I am saying is not these amps are better. They are better sounding with my specific system. Now the other set amps I have heard;
LM 219ia in power amp mode, supposedly should sound the same having the same topology. It doesnt, maybe it is the tube rectification or better components of 503pa
Mastersound compact 845, this one sounds veiled and can not cope with more complex classical music. Euphonic in a way I dont like, sounds tubey in an oldschool way.
Wavac 805 monoblocks - This one I tried to love more than I should but let me try to explain what odd thing stopped me from getting these. There was an unnatural dynamic swing. I hope I am explaining what I heard clearly. It sounds dynamic and nice, but somewhat unnatural. Unnaturalness was not timbral, but dynamic, like extra accentuation.
I have also tried push pull but they just sounded overly muscular and unnatural after hearing the sets.
edit: I use we replica 845, 300b, 310a from Psvane on Line Magnetics. I tried the rest with whatever stock tubes they came with.
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I must say the LM range look rather interesting. Probably the most kg per $ in the amplifier world!
I would add Ayon, NAT and Aries Cerat to the list of SETs that do complex classical well. Probably the upper AN UK models do as well but the lower models not so well. The JJ322 also does it well with a sympathetic speaker (at least 93-94db and easy load).
One of the best SET experiences I have had was with the WAVAC HE805. I am not sure about "accentuating" dynamics because, IMO, nearly all electronics blunt the true dynamic envelope compared to what I hear when I am upclose live (like the microphone in most recordings ;-) ). I guess it could be accentuated but, given the lack of realism in dynamics for most gear, I think a bit of accentuation in this regard would not be a bad thing unless it was somehow erratic or only in some frequency bands.
I was not impressed with the 300 i/p. It was lean and bright in the system I head it in (dealer's demo). Speakers were Marten something or other (can't remember now...it was forgettable sound). VPA I have heard work really well with the Verity Parsifal but it is not a SET. Still, interesting monos.
Yes, the nature of recording and playback dynamic range is well below our hearing. As someone who had a studio too I know it. I also thing the micro and macro dynamics are one of the key things for transfer of emotion. That is why I have built my system 109db efficient!
The accents I have tried to tell about was unnatural and out of place, making the sounds become overly bodied and loose the refinement with the power that came along with it. Like hearing the instruments with the air around them, then forte parts loosing the air, sounding strong but suddenly like a less seasoned player pushing and loosing the refinement. It maybe more accentuation in lower mids opposed to the rest of the band. Oh how I hate trying to explain these things
Anyway, this can be equipment mismatch as well. Wavac is a serious company with incredible amps!Yes, the nature of recording and playback dynamic range is well below our hearing. As someone who had a studio too I know it. I also thing the micro and macro dynamics are one of the key things for transfer of emotion. That is why I have built my system 109db efficient!
The accents I have tried to tell about was unnatural and out of place, making the sounds become overly bodied and loose the refinement with the power that came along with it. Like hearing the instruments with the air around them, then forte parts loosing the air, sounding strong but suddenly like a less seasoned player pushing and loosing the refinement. It maybe more accentuation in lower mids opposed to the rest of the band. Oh how I hate trying to explain these things
If I understand you correctly you mean that it was more of an inconsistency in how they behaved at different dynamic levels that made them standout to you. Does that sound about right? 109db system is pretty awesome and will show up many kinds of inconsistencies, like a really powerful microscope for the sound. I myself am using 98db horn speakers but a full 11db is a huge jump in sensitivity. I guess it has a "jump" that is hard for most other systems to realize.
Yes, you got me right. Its a kind of inconsistent dynamic behaviour. I want to remind once more, these can be dependent on many factors. What I am saying is nitpicking. If I have chosen the 805 and tried to adapt it to my system and create a synergy. It may have been solved. I just did not think it as a good starting point to work on. It takes a lot of time and a combination of each and every component to get a refined sound. The 109db efficiency is both a blessing and a curse!
Among the many tube amps i had since 1990 to 2.016,
Yamamura with 845,all Audio Tekne,ANJapan Neiro,Neiro Silver,Kageki,Baransu,Ongaku,Gakuon,Kondo Souga and Ongaku KSL,ANUK Kageki and Jinro,Shindo Shinonia,Pavillon Rouge and 300B Limited,Dissanayake reference,FAL,Verdier,Sun Audio 300B,Mactone 300B and M8V otl mono
plus listen many times from friends like Sakuma,Kondo Shinden,ANJ Kegon,Viva Aurora with 845,Wavac 300B
Plus some in the shop like Kronzilla and others,
i can tell the absolutely more magic in the mid/midhigh for me are
Kondo Souga and AudioTekne mono TM 8501 with 300B and TM 9502 with tube 6AS7G
This are the 3 best and really have a magic sound
Yamamura with 845,all Audio Tekne,ANJapan Neiro,Neiro Silver,Kageki,Baransu,Ongaku,Gakuon,Kondo Souga and Ongaku KSL,ANUK Kageki and Jinro,Shindo Shinonia,Pavillon Rouge and 300B Limited,Dissanayake reference,FAL,Verdier,Sun Audio 300B,Mactone 300B and M8V otl mono
plus listen many times from friends like Sakuma,Kondo Shinden,ANJ Kegon,Viva Aurora with 845,Wavac 300B
Plus some in the shop like Kronzilla and others,
i can tell the absolutely more magic in the mid/midhigh for me are
Kondo Souga and AudioTekne mono TM 8501 with 300B and TM 9502 with tube 6AS7G
This are the 3 best and really have a magic sound
I have heard this exact description from a major importer of Wavac many years ago...sometimes too bombastic, sometime too demure. Not measured/controlled enough in its delivery. A number of years later, I think they still distribute it, but I think they have been focusing on other brands.
I have only heard the HE805 from WAVAC and I have to admit it left me gobsmacked in the system I heard it in. One of the best show demos I have ever heard.
I have only heard the HE805 from WAVAC and I have to admit it left me gobsmacked in the system I heard it in. One of the best show demos I have ever heard.
I have a lot of trust in your ears Morricab and enjoy reading all your posts. I imagine that amp-speaker combination is important here (as it often can be), and equally have certainly read about the human-ness/life-like qualities of the Wavac signature.
Empirical Audio
Industry Expert
I use a pair of Arte Forma 805AT based SET monoblocks to drive my Vapor Audio Nimbus speakers. These were actually prototype amps that I used at a couple of shows and then purchased and rewired and modded some caps inside. Also added an inrush limiter to extend the life of the 805AT tubes. These are point-to-point wired and DC-coupled input to output. Incredible, tight bass and liquid midrange as well as HF transients that are live. Best of all worlds. No better amp have I heard.
My wired Arte-Forma amps are no longer available, but you can get a PC-board version of the same thing. If you do, my recommendation for tubes is:
Shuguang Nature Sound series 805AT
English NOS Genalex KT66
Russian NOS 6H8C metal bas military tube
Steve N.
Empirical Audio
My wired Arte-Forma amps are no longer available, but you can get a PC-board version of the same thing. If you do, my recommendation for tubes is:
Shuguang Nature Sound series 805AT
English NOS Genalex KT66
Russian NOS 6H8C metal bas military tube
Steve N.
Empirical Audio
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