What situation are you most worried about?

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
11,358
361
283
#22
Lloyd,

Your concerns are obviously valid. I ranted a bit because folks will spend thousands on alarm systems to protect their stuff, but make zero investment in protecting themselves. While the possibility of something that bad happening is quite low, the one person who IS victimized always wonders how they might have avoided it. The biggest purpose of all my posts in the self defense forum here is to motivate our friends to seek out some training and information that can enhance their safety!

Many of our members are affluent, and thus may present the appearance to the bad guy of "BIG PAYOFF". If you look like an attractive target and are observed by criminals, you definitely increase the odds of assault. Feel free to ask more specific questions here in the forum or via PM, whichever you prefer. I'll help however I can.

Lee
Thank you. Look - trouble happens. I am not looking for it, remain cautious about where and when I am out, and remain focused and purposeful whenever I walk (aka NYC-style) but if you happen to meet the wrong 3 guys...what are the key things to look for/do/say to try to de-escalate...or do to try to create the escape route? I am NOT looking to learn military killer fighting technics on an audio thread...but some ideas from the pros about de-escalating a situation properly or physical things to do to avoid being cornered are much appreciated.
 
Apr 3, 2010
15,814
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0
Seattle, WA
#23
Thanks for the last answer Lee. How about this scenario. Knock on the door and the situation is non-threatening so you open the door. It turns violent all of a sudden and the person charges toward the door and you standing in the doorway. Any techniques to deal with that after the fact?
 

zztop7

Member Sponsor
Dec 12, 2012
750
0
0
Edmonds, WA
#24
Run run run

Thanks for the last answer Lee. How about this scenario. Knock on the door and the situation is non-threatening so you open the door. It turns violent all of a sudden and the person charges toward the door and you standing in the doorway. Any techniques to deal with that after the fact?
So first I want to clarify your question. Amirm, you are in your house / Amirm, you open your door - if this is correct:

DO NOT THINK - RUN, RUN FASTER THAN A TORNADO.

I grew up in an Extremely high crime rate area on the East Coast. We had major gang wars in the 1950s & drive by shootings.

Either you take them down viciously, or you RUN.

Respectfully,
zz.
 

RBFC

WBF Founding Member & Super Moderator
Apr 20, 2010
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Albuquerque, NM
www.fightingconcepts.com
#25
Thanks for the last answer Lee. How about this scenario. Knock on the door and the situation is non-threatening so you open the door. It turns violent all of a sudden and the person charges toward the door and you standing in the doorway. Any techniques to deal with that after the fact?
ZZtop essentially gave the two options. For clarity, let's look at the event. You open the door and this is the opportunity the bad guy's been waiting for. He lunges through the door. Now, after our previous discussions, you've opened the door to an unknown individual. Are you armed with any of the options we've discussed? Do you and your wife have a backup plan that deals with unlawful entry into your home while you're there? Please understand that criminals don't expect to meet any organized resistance when they commit their crime. Your development of a plan is your best tool to mess up their strategy. A face full of pepper spray, taser shot, or lethal means is not expected as they are following a script in their head that pegged you as "hamburgers ready to be eaten". Many states have laws that concern Castle Doctrine which outlines your rights to defend your home with necessary force (including deadly force). Almost universally, the intruder must be physically in your home when you employ your defense... i.e. you can't shoot him in the back on your driveway as he runs away!

Let's consider the escape option. First, you know the layout of your home better than anyone. So, if you and your family have devised routes of escape that pertain to you being in the common places in your home, you will know what direction to go and what to do. You must assess your physical ability to outrun someone in this scenario! If escape is not a good option for any reason, it would be prudent to have a defense plan. In my opinion, I wouldn't open the door to anyone you don't know and would deal with them via intercom, etc. Having security cameras that show the perimeter of your home can assist you in this case. You might see accomplice(s) that would otherwise be out of sight line from the door.

As for the fighting portion, it's almost negligent to expect an untrained individual to be able to engage a violent attacker without superior armament. The bad guy certainly wouldn't allow you any more chance than he had to. One of the hallmarks of the success of criminals is the disbelief of the populace that violent crime can be happening to them. The interval of time in which the victim deals with disbelief are the tactical moments that allow the criminal to establish a more superior position in the confrontation. If nothing else, some training helps us to more quickly recognize a developing assault.

Lee
 

RBFC

WBF Founding Member & Super Moderator
Apr 20, 2010
5,133
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315
Albuquerque, NM
www.fightingconcepts.com
#26
Thank you. Look - trouble happens. I am not looking for it, remain cautious about where and when I am out, and remain focused and purposeful whenever I walk (aka NYC-style) but if you happen to meet the wrong 3 guys...what are the key things to look for/do/say to try to de-escalate...or do to try to create the escape route? I am NOT looking to learn military killer fighting technics on an audio thread...but some ideas from the pros about de-escalating a situation properly or physical things to do to avoid being cornered are much appreciated.
One of the classic mistakes that I will be mentioning over and over is "disbelief that this is happening to me". The amount of time that it takes an untrained person to accept that they are engaged in a violent confrontation is usually too long. The criminal counts on this time advantage as he improves his dominance of the event. This may mean he maneuvers you into an alleyway (out of sight of witnesses) or gets even closer so that you DO fear being stabbed immediately by that knife. Training allows us to recognize archetypal "traps" and predatory behaviors for what they are.

Let's look at a classic setup. You're walking down the sidewalk and see a couple guys hanging out in front of a building ahead. Almost all of us will walk straight by and mind our business. However, we have given up one important tactical advantage immediately: the time/distance relationship that allows us to make a better decision. We walk right into their "sandwich" trap. Now, if we see a couple guys in front of a building ahead, and we immediately cross the street before we reach them, we have retained that important advantage. We have forced them to "telegraph" their intentions, since they'll have to come after us from across the street. This is far preferable to being right next to them as the attack initiates. So, a simple change in our path removes us from the "easy prey of opportunity" category and makes them work if they want it. We look for open businesses, routes of escape, improvised weapons (break off a car antenna, etc.), and other factors that can turn the tables. The key is that we have provided ourselves with the precious time to examine our options. Criminals hate it when we get that time.

Let's take another example: you drive into your driveway, press your garage door opener, drive into your garage, stop the car and get out. As you enter your home, you press the garage door button and the door closes. Unknowingly, you just let the criminal into your home. (This actually happened to a client) He waited alongside your garage, waited for you to enter your home and quickly stepped over the electric eye on your garage door mechanism so that he got in before the door was completely down. Now: instead, you drive into the garage. You are still locked in your car and you press the garage door remote in your car. The door goes down while you are still safely locked into your car, removing the opportunity for him to assault you immediately upon his entry. You have time to access a weapon or dial 911 (or both). You can re-open the garage door and let him run away since his plan has been ruined. Again, a very simple change to YOUR behavior pattern removes the easy opportunity that the criminal desires.

I hope that these examples have begun to illuminate the thought process by which crime can be stifled. Criminals rely on opportunity, and we have a great deal to do with providing or denying that opportunity. With sufficient thought and planning, the actual dependence on physically violent defense tactics is minimized because things rarely progress to that point. As always, I'll state that nothing is perfect, but we must play the high-percentage odds.

Lee
 

Tom1356

New Member
Oct 16, 2011
45
4
0
#27
When dealing with an untrained angry dog Firmly say " Go get your ball".
If there's a ball nearby he/she will go get it.
It wont work on a trained guard dog but it works with most dogs.
I once played fetch with a growling barking dog for ten minutes while I did what I need to do in his yard.
He would drop the ball and start barking and growling then go fetch it.
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 21, 2010
9,483
6
0
#28
Let's look at a classic setup. You're walking down the sidewalk and see a couple guys hanging out in front of a building ahead. Almost all of us will walk straight by and mind our business. However, we have given up one important tactical advantage immediately: the time/distance relationship that allows us to make a better decision. We walk right into their "sandwich" trap. Now, if we see a couple guys in front of a building ahead, and we immediately cross the street before we reach them, we have retained that important advantage. We have forced them to "telegraph" their intentions, since they'll have to come after us from across the street. This is far preferable to being right next to them as the attack initiates. So, a simple change in our path removes us from the "easy prey of opportunity" category and makes them work if they want it. We look for open businesses, routes of escape, improvised weapons (break off a car antenna, etc.), and other factors that can turn the tables. The key is that we have provided ourselves with the precious time to examine our options. Criminals hate it when we get that time.

Lee
Lee-I question this tactic a little bit. If you are scanning ahead while you are walking down a sidewalk (which you should be) and you spot a couple of no-goodniks in front of you, I would cross the street as soon as I spotted the pair instead of waiting until I was right up on them which makes you look afraid and makes you even more of a target. Let's face some facts here. If you look like a soft target because of the way you walk and look, your odds of getting overhauled by some low-lifes are much higher than if your demeanor shows that you are a hard target. You need to have a little Philly or South Jersey 'attitude,' but for some people that is just impossible to pull off. i think the best defense is to always be aware of your surroundings and who is in front of you, on the sides of you, and behind you. If you can't fight and you feel that you are walking into a trap, run like hell in the opposite direction before you get to the trap.
 

RBFC

WBF Founding Member & Super Moderator
Apr 20, 2010
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Albuquerque, NM
www.fightingconcepts.com
#29
Lee-I question this tactic a little bit. If you are scanning ahead while you are walking down a sidewalk (which you should be) and you spot a couple of no-goodniks in front of you, I would cross the street as soon as I spotted the pair instead of waiting until I was right up on them which makes you look afraid and makes you even more of a target. Let's face some facts here. If you look like a soft target because of the way you walk and look, your odds of getting overhauled by some low-lifes are much higher than if your demeanor shows that you are a hard target. You need to have a little Philly or South Jersey 'attitude,' but for some people that is just impossible to pull off. i think the best defense is to always be aware of your surroundings and who is in front of you, on the sides of you, and behind you. If you can't fight and you feel that you are walking into a trap, run like hell in the opposite direction before you get to the trap.
Not sure what you mean.... I suggested crossing the street immediately. I can see how you could read into it what you stated, but that is NOT what I intended. Proximity is danger.

Lee
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
11,358
361
283
#30
Not sure what you mean.... I suggested crossing the street immediately. I can see how you could read into it what you stated, but that is NOT what I intended. Proximity is danger.

Lee
Back to the 3 thugs...presume now they were hiding and do the jump out and surprise you thing. They're brandishing weapons...you have no training. Keep them talking to keep things from escalating too fast? Do exactly what your told no matter what? Throw wallet in opposite direction and try to high tail it out of there? Start screaming "Fire!" to get some attention?

What signs are you looking for to see if these guys are out for the quick easy buck and taking off...or have every intention of killing you (no witnesses)...
 

RBFC

WBF Founding Member & Super Moderator
Apr 20, 2010
5,133
17
315
Albuquerque, NM
www.fightingconcepts.com
#31
You might keep a second "throw-away" wallet to use as a distraction. You throw it and run the opposite direction. I would not recommend any attempt to remain in the area for ANYONE, when facing 3 armed thugs who've ambushed you. Please understand that we can create "unthinkable" scenarios in our mind, yet they have extremely rare chance of actually occurring. When assaults like this do occur, it's in an area that good judgement would've told us not to go!!!

Lee
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 21, 2010
9,483
6
0
#32
Not sure what you mean.... I suggested crossing the street immediately. I can see how you could read into it what you stated, but that is NOT what I intended. Proximity is danger.

Lee
Got it Lee. I just wanted to understand what you meant. We are both on the same page with regards to crossing the street as soon as possible and not when you are within a few feet of the men you are concerned with.
 

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