What's going on with the US stock market lately?

[NorthStar]

Oppo Digital is a Chinese audio/video electronic company; on April 2nd of this year they closed their production facilities after fourteen years of delivering premium disc spinners around the world.
Their USA division is now mainly managing warranties, firmwares support, returns, emails, ...
Oppo is big in the cell phone market, mucho dinero there.

What was the major reason(s) for this downfall, anything to do with China and trade tariffs, ...?
No money to be made, no profits, too much expenses, ...?
Their last two players were almost free; the Oppo 203 for only $550, and the 205 limo for only $1,300...USA dollars. Nothing else in the world compared to them, and offering that much performance and build quality and features and value all across the board for just some spare change, nothing @ all.

The 205 is ultra high-end audio/video playback machine for a song, without zero competition, zero.
What happened? Is the US stock market a bit responsible? ...Or not?

I ask because someone bright here might know something I don't.
I have zero clue how the strategies played on, and who the players are, and if the administrators in China and in the USA have any idea?

 

[NorthStar]

Worth reading ...

Extra (for interested parties only):
• https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/22/...n=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=collection
___

And:
• http://www.treefrogcreative.ca/news/
• https://www.treefrogcreative.ca/news/page/2/
___

More:
• https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/11/business/dealbook/trump-tariffs-canada-lumber.html
• https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...1dd6a09b549_story.html?utm_term=.1ebc8771fc43

 

[Priaptor]

I think trade tariffs are never a smart thing but who am i .
That things get made in low wage countries is a marketmechanism nobody is gonna change that , lots of US companies profit from that .
In the company where i work it goes as follows , first things get made in belgium 50 years ago , then spain , poland turkey etc
When these became to expensive it became china , and now india , its a market mechanism simple .
But its not gonnna last china is becoming much more expensive to produce and for people to live in , workers will demand higher wages , in my opinion in 20 - 30 years it wont be a discussion no more

Of course tariffs are never a good thing. Over the last 25 years our brilliant leaders have allowed to very other country to wipe the floor with us. We go around claiming “we are no longer a manufacturing economy” and people just accept that nonsense because it allows the globalists including big corporations to ship away our jobs.

Tarriffs have been a reality on American goods forever and only got worse with NAFTA, China, EU and other moronic deals that have helped a select group while screwing the average American.

Whether you like Trump or hate him he is correct when pointing out how America has been screwed by our Economic Partners.

Yeah we too apply tariffs to foreign goods buys it’s a fraction of what they apply to our goods.

Here is an analogy. When we were dependent upon our last enemy, middle eastern oil, they pulled our strings every time they needed. Now that we are self-sufficient with energy they have lost their clout. Well now we have literally turned over a significant portion of our economy to the most egregious of them all, namely China, and no matter how Tim Cook (and others) wants to spin it they could care less about China’s manipulation (or human rights violations) as long as they can get better deals on manufacturing.

Yes tarriffs suck but we have ignored them on us for decades

 

[jeff1225]

You're clueless pal. The Chinese economy is in a major slowdown, devaluation is not an option, they have ZERO monetary manipulation at their disposal, they import nothing from America so their tariff threat is meaningless, the EU will NEVER side with China just like the EU is siding with Trump when having no choice with Iran.

Xi's threats are all based on meaningless assumptions.

Lastly, China is an enemy militarily and economically for the last 25 years. People like you support America's enemies which is fine as it defines who you are. As to the stock market, short term pain for long term gain. Stock market down 5.5% from it's peak is hardly a crash and quite frankly is due for a correction to skim the overvalued cream. Reality is day of the election, Dow futures were down 1000 points to a Dow 17K on a Trump Victory. Where are we now? Pretty good for a "weenie" Mr. Nugent, NO??

China imports nothing from the USA? Are you kidding? 169 Billion in trade goes to China from the USA. For several farm products, China is the principle export target. For example, 57% of the soy bean crop in the USA goes to China.

I seriously question where you get your information.

 

[jeff1225]

Of course tariffs are never a good thing. Over the last 25 years our brilliant leaders have allowed to very other country to wipe the floor with us. We go around claiming “we are no longer a manufacturing economy” and people just accept that nonsense because it allows the globalists including big corporations to ship away our jobs.

Tarriffs have been a reality on American goods forever and only got worse with NAFTA, China, EU and other moronic deals that have helped a select group while screwing the average American.

Whether you like Trump or hate him he is correct when pointing out how America has been screwed by our Economic Partners.

Yeah we too apply tariffs to foreign goods buys it’s a fraction of what they apply to our goods.

Here is an analogy. When we were dependent upon our last enemy, middle eastern oil, they pulled our strings every time they needed. Now that we are self-sufficient with energy they have lost their clout. Well now we have literally turned over a significant portion of our economy to the most egregious of them all, namely China, and no matter how Tim Cook (and others) wants to spin it they could care less about China’s manipulation (or human rights violations) as long as they can get better deals on manufacturing.

Yes tarriffs suck but we have ignored them on us for decades

But....tariffs had nothing to do with the self sufficiency in oil, innovation and investment did. It was actually because there were no tariffs, to artificially hold prices high, that the US oil producers innovated and embraced fracking. As a Reagan Republican and proponent of supply side economics, I'm shocked on how many "so called" conservatives are supporting tariffs.

With all of the tariffs and Russian collusion, my idol Reagan is really rolling in his grave.

 

[KeithR]

The German auto guys are on board with no tariffs at all. I'm interested if Trump will agree to drop the 25% tariff on pickup trucks that it charges the EU and everybody else. That will be *very* telling.

Jeff - the market believes that temporary tariffs will drive tariffs lower or even eliminate them in new trade deals. I'm just not sure Trump can get there - these are politicians not businessmen. There is a fundamental difference.

ps. Reagan tried tariffs and quotas too - on Japanese cars! Obama did it on tires and steel, W on steel. they all have, that's the big joke.

 

[Priaptor]

China imports nothing from the USA? Are you kidding? 169 Billion in trade goes to China from the USA. For several farm products, China is the principle export target. For example, 57% of the soy bean crop in the USA goes to China.

I seriously question where you get your information.

You are kidding right?? 170 billion is a pittance compared to what we import. There tarriffs on our exports to them amount to almost zilch. I get the facts you overestimate the ramifications. Their tarriffs on our imports are virtually meaningless compared to the reverse.

Look at the moves they are taking to counter including the likely devaluation of he yuan which will further depress their consumerism and further slow their artificially pumped up economy. Not sure why you guys fear them so much. Maybe because you exaggerate their effect while purposely underestimating America’s power; bias and purposefully so

 

[Priaptor]

But....tariffs had nothing to do with the self sufficiency in oil, innovation and investment did. It was actually because there were no tariffs, to artificially hold prices high, that the US oil producers innovated and embraced fracking. As a Reagan Republican and proponent of supply side economics, I'm shocked on how many "so called" conservatives are supporting tariffs.

With all of the tariffs and Russian collusion, my idol Reagan is really rolling in his grave.

I’m done with you. Seriously it’s too difficult to debate with someone who misses the point of every post.

You’re right about everything.

 

[jeff1225]

I’m done with you. Seriously it’s too difficult to debate with someone who misses the point of every post.

You’re right about everything.

Priaptor you said 'China imports nothing from the USA,' and this statement was blatantly incorrect. So I'm not supposed to take your words and refute them in a debate? Please lay out the rules that you'd like to use in this debate because obviously there are different rules than I'm used to, IE taking someone's specific words and making a counter argument against them.

Thanks.

 

[Priaptor]

Priaptor you said 'China imports nothing from the USA,' and this statement was blatantly incorrect. So I'm not supposed to take your words and refute them in a debate? Please lay out the rules that you'd like to use in this debate because obviously there are different rules than I'm used to, IE taking someone's specific words and making a counter argument against them.

Thanks.

This post of yours is just more evidence of why I’m done. I responded to factually correct issue of American imports to China and why it is of minimal economic impact to us compared to the reverse. It was your next post that led me to say “I’m done with you”.

 

[jeff1225]

The German auto guys are on board with no tariffs at all. I'm interested if Trump will agree to drop the 25% tariff on pickup trucks that it charges the EU and everybody else. That will be *very* telling.

Jeff - the market believes that temporary tariffs will drive tariffs lower or even eliminate them in new trade deals. I'm just not sure Trump can get there - these are politicians not businessmen. There is a fundamental difference.

ps. Reagan tried tariffs and quotas too - on Japanese cars! Obama did it on tires and steel, W on steel. they all have, that's the big joke.

Targeted tariffs and quotas put in place during the Reagan and Bush terms are vastly different from a general "trade war." Any attempt by Trump to paint Reagan as a protectionist is just another lie perpetrated by the reality TV star. Reagan rightly saw trade, especially with our allies, as a key ingredient to winning the Cold War. Reagan had a trade strategy, the same can't be said for this administration.

Ask Gary Cohn, the smartest person in the administration left because of the "trade war."

 

[jeff1225]

This post of yours is just more evidence of why I’m done. I responded to factually correct issue of American imports to China and why it is of minimal economic impact to us compared to the reverse. It was your next post that led me to say “I’m done with you”.

The only way not to lose is not to play. Smart move Priaptor.

 

[Empirical Audio]

You're clueless pal. The Chinese economy is in a major slowdown, devaluation is not an option, they have ZERO monetary manipulation at their disposal, they import nothing from America so their tariff threat is meaningless, the EU will NEVER side with China just like the EU is siding with Trump when having no choice with Iran.

Xi's threats are all based on meaningless assumptions.

Lastly, China is an enemy militarily and economically for the last 25 years. People like you support America's enemies which is fine as it defines who you are. As to the stock market, short term pain for long term gain. Stock market down 5.5% from it's peak is hardly a crash and quite frankly is due for a correction to skim the overvalued cream. Reality is day of the election, Dow futures were down 1000 points to a Dow 17K on a Trump Victory. Where are we now? Pretty good for a "weenie" Mr. Nugent, NO??

We are screwed, that's where we are. I don't see any long-term gain from this. It will take some time, but the damage done will come to roost. The next time we need something like sanctions from another friendly country, they will hang up the phone. The economy will sputter and slide into recession because of these policies.

Pulling out of TPP was stupid. Pulling out of the Iran Nuclear deal was stupid. Siding with Putin and Israel is stupid. Denying Climate change and pulling out of the Paris accord is stupid. Asking the G7 to include Russia is stupid. Turning our backs on our allies is stupid.

China's cheap products have improved US lifestyles for a decade. It certainly isn't because of increasing wages. We should come down hard on Chinese IP theft, but tariffs are not the way to do this. Tariffs are just stupid.

To be clear, America's enemies are: Russia, Iran, North Korea and a host of terrorist organizations, not Canada, not Mexico, not Australia, not the EU and not China. China is not interfering in our elections. China is not threatening the US. China has not invaded any other countries, yet. Economics is more important to them still than being the dominant world power. That may change though. We have a lot of leverage over them even without tariffs.

 

[jeff1225]

Pulling out of the Iranian deal and then imposing tariffs on your EU allies that you hope will also pull out of the Iranian deal has to be one of the stupidest decisions of all time. I wasn't a fan of the deal, as it circumvented the Constitutional power of the Congress to make treaties, but the optics of imposing tariffs on your closest economic and military allies is unbelievably stupid.

 

[Folsom]

The US needs to switch to EU standards for vehicles... Few cars can cross border sale. That drives the price up for all of them.

Tariffs are a mixed bag for them IMO. Cars are often "made" here and there, then assembled somewhere like the US (like how Honda and Toyota do more work in the US now than other companies). How do you set the tariffs?

 

[NorthStar]

Economics is a great subject, the US stock market.

We're on a forum of the Internet; words matter because we don't have the eyes to see and ears to hear.
But we have another tool, the most powerful one...the entire Internet to get the numbers as accurately they are honestly published.
You guys are great, passionate like I. Jeff simply took Priaptor's (I'd love to have that name as my real name, it sounds vigorous) words as they were typed, not the end of the world. Both USA and China import and export from and to each other; we just need to get our numbers that's all.

Here's my non-expert economy opinion on those tariffs under the present administration...strictly business.
First, respect, diplomacy, friendly attitude towards all world countries who aspire to peace, freedom, equality, fraternity, good happy living for everyone. In times of turmoil we help and support each other's.

Civilised people living in democracy and true healthy environment for their families, friends and neighbors, they share their resources to benefit all sides. It's good common sense.

Those tariffs, IMO, are quite drastic to help secure and invest in creating jobs in the USA. I get that. Make Canada great again, Canada first.

Canadians are lazy workers, many. So we import workers from other countries...it works great for all countries involved. We want nothing to do with drug dealers, gang leaders, cartels from any country, not even our own. And we certainly don't want to send them in other countries to spread the disease. We need to rehabilitate them and educate them to participate on good social normal activities of life with peace. Not an easy task because some of them are stubborn and hold grudges from centuries ago, plus they are kids needing our help with a good spanking once and for all. And the same with the corrupted banks, lawyers, high positions that give the worst examples to the rest of us, good citizens with good family values.

We have a problem, and we need to solve it together. Take all the inmates from jails and make them build our nations. ...Like real life jobs... construction, reforestation, steel bridges builders, astronauts, farmers, gardeners, software designers, security workers, guardians, hospital workers, electric cars makers, solar panels installers, water irrigators, urban planifiers, sport analysts, forestry administrators, ...rehabilitate them for the best future of our societies. Give them a good reason to live normal with dignity, respect and civility. Invest in that and business should be good anywhere there are inmates in jails that you can make good use of. That's a balanced economy, without trade wars, heavy traffic, heavy tariffs, heavy crime.

You might laugh @ this idea but remember this; it would significantly reduce those high tariffs, eliminate them, create employment, invigorate the economy, and the people.

The true masters are the workers working for the kings and queens of the North Pole.

If we wouldn't have good humor we would sound too serious.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Gentlemen: Please stick to the stock market and to the economics, and stay away from the politics.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

The US needs to switch to EU standards for vehicles... Few cars can cross border sale. That drives the price up for all of them.

Tariffs are a mixed bag for them IMO. Cars are often "made" here and there, then assembled somewhere like the US (like how Honda and Toyota do more work in the US now than other companies). How do you set the tariffs?

EU emission standards are based on a whole different public transportation equation than the US. in Europe you have this huge percentage of older small vehicles which are very dirty with lots of diesels. the saving grace is most cities have a minor level of car commuting. and then you have the whole socialist 'owned by the government' car manufacturers blurring the lines and the wolf watching the henhouse. so EU standards are a bit 'fluid'.

I know there are exceptions to this 'wink and nod' situation, and some European countries are very car emission conscious. but most are not.

in the US we live in a mostly commute by car culture. larger vehicles and more intertwined into daily life. and our government and even private citizenry are vigilant and even militant about car emissions.

apples and oranges. for good reasons......and I can't see US ever going Europe's way. more likely the other way around, if only because access to the US car market might require the European Governments to go that way by lawsuit.

 

[Folsom]

I was thinking about other things, like safety standards that are equal but different. Emissions is important to me, very, but only makes up a portion of the car. I still don't know how they plan to tariff it... a bit odd.

 

[NorthStar]

We are screwed, that's where we are. I don't see any long-term gain from this. It will take some time, but the damage done will come to roost. The next time we need something like sanctions from another friendly country, they will hang up the phone. The economy will sputter and slide into recession because of these policies.

Pulling out of TPP was stupid. Pulling out of the Iran Nuclear deal was stupid. Siding with Putin and Israel is stupid. Denying Climate change and pulling out of the Paris accord is stupid. Asking the G7 to include Russia is stupid. Turning our backs on our allies is stupid.

China's cheap products have improved US lifestyles for a decade. It certainly isn't because of increasing wages. We should come down hard on Chinese IP theft, but tariffs are not the way to do this. Tariffs are just stupid.

To be clear, America's enemies are: Russia, Iran, North Korea and a host of terrorist organizations, not Canada, not Mexico, not Australia, not the EU and not China. China is not interfering in our elections. China is not threatening the US. China has not invaded any other countries, yet. Economics is more important to them still than being the dominant world power. That may change though. We have a lot of leverage over them even without tariffs.

Steve, I like what you say. Cheers,