What's the best subwoofer? REL? JL AUDIO? Velodyne? Wilson? Something else?

[caesar]

Gentlemen,

So how do internet company subs compare to audiophile subs? Anyone compare the SVS SB13 to a REL Gibraltar series? Does SVS equal or surpass the REL?

If one is paying a premium for a REL, is one paying primarily for marketing or for engineering the best possible audiophile sound?

 

[DonH50]

Maybe you should have started a new thread instead of dragging up this old one?

What makes you think Internet Direct subs are not "audiophile" subs?

I compared Velodyne, Rythmik, Paradigm, B&W, and a few others. I bought Rythmik based on the sonic performance, measurements, and price. The Paradigm and Velodyne units I thought comparable were 3x - 5x the price, but I never had all the subs in my room at the same time to listen/test/compare so do not consider that more than my personal experience, bias, what have you.

Don't forget Seaton, another well-known and highly-respected sub designer.

I have never heard a REL or SVS.

 

[garylkoh]

I usually recommend Rythmik when an old Genesis owner with a 20 year old dead subwoofer comes to us but can't afford to buy a new Genesis sub. That's been working well over the past couple of years. Unfortunately, over the past few months when 2 of them complained that they had to return them because they didn't sound as good as the Genesis. I recommended one to Paradigm and the other Velodyne. I haven't heard from them. So, either they are satisfied, or they no longer trust my recommendations

Unfortunately, the Genesis 928 sold for less than $2,000 in 1994 - but I can't sell it at the same price in 2014.

 

[Nyal Mellor]

Gentlemen,

So how do internet company subs compare to audiophile subs? Anyone compare the SVS SB13 to a REL Gibraltar series? Does SVS equal or surpass the REL?

If one is paying a premium for a REL, is one paying primarily for marketing or for engineering the best possible audiophile sound?

REL=MEH

JL Audio all the way. For the money the new E series is excellent, only lacking a little in output to the Fathom. The SVS are very good, but IMO a little below JL.

And remember to properly integrate it. No that does not mean running it in parallel with your main speakers. It means actively crossing over your main speakers to the sub and using digital delay to properly time align.

 

[dallasjustice]

The jl f113 is great because it's very versatile (power and bandwidth) and is very small. I have a pair; each in mono.

 

[Ronm1]

I helped an audio bud with his HT/2ch system. Integrated a Revel 10B quite well in providing impact and musical subtlety. Dare I say very musical. Very enjoyable to listen too.

 

[DonH50]

I'm surprised a Genesis owner didn't like Rythmik, wonder what happened? Rythmik replaced my old custom (DIY) servo sub based upon an Infinity IRS driver. However, the top Paradigm and Velodyne are excellent, though I was less impressed with anything below the very top Velodynes. I felt the ones that competed with my Rythmik were 3x the price or more but would not fault them sonically. When I got back into this hobby a few years ago I was surprised at how many great new products were available at all price ranges.

 

[dallasjustice]

I wonder how much poor subwoofer integration is the true cause for folks searching for the "best" subwoofer.

 

[RBFC]

I wonder how much poor subwoofer integration is the true cause for folks searching for the "best" subwoofer.

Absolutely. I also run a pair of JL F113s. I use Dirac to integrate them and agree that proper setup is at least as important as the choice of sub.

Lee

 

[garylkoh]

I was surprised too that a former Genesis owner didn't like the Rythmik. I heard some at a customer who had them mixed with Genesis and thought they sounded excellent. I had a look at the technology - and except for adding another driver in opposition to cancel cabinet and internal distortion - I thought that they got it right there.

Excellent products for the money. I certainly couldn't make one as good at the same price!!

dallasjustice might be right that these two customers couldn't integrate them.

 

[Bodhi]

Has anyone actually auditioned various subs in their system and can meaningfully describe the sonic signature of say, REL vs JL vs Velodyne vs. anything else?

I haven't auditioned this sub, but surely the Magico Q-sub fits the bill of the best subwoofer? The Wilson Benesch Torus Infrasonic generator is an interesting product as well..

 

[Nyal Mellor]

Absolutely. I also run a pair of JL F113s. I use Dirac to integrate them and agree that proper setup is at least as important as the choice of sub.

Lee

How are you integrating subs with dirac? It doesn't have any xo functionality, dallasjustice and I ran into that problem with his system

 

[caesar]

I haven't auditioned this sub, but surely the Magico Q-sub fits the bill of the best subwoofer? The Wilson Benesch Torus Infrasonic generator is an interesting product as well..

I have no doubt they are very fine products, but I wonder if they are specifically voiced to work with Magico Q series products. Also, not that I am searching, but I haven't seen any reviews of these.

 

[caesar]

I wonder how much poor subwoofer integration is the true cause for folks searching for the "best" subwoofer.

Dallas, you may be right. My initial thinking was the sub-woofers are a pure commodity product, as we can only "feel" the lower registers. So anything with a large size, decent specs, and good engineering reputation is pretty much interchangeable. But like with everything else in this hobby, there is a divergence of opinions...

 

[LL21]

I haven't auditioned this sub, but surely the Magico Q-sub fits the bill of the best subwoofer? The Wilson Benesch Torus Infrasonic generator is an interesting product as well..

Krell Master Ref Sub is a serious contender according to 3 people I know who've spent real time with it over the years. Designed many years ago, in a similar fashion to the QSub...opposite facing 15' drivers, weighs over 400lbs with solid 1 inch to 2 inch thick aluminium baffle. Apparently loads of crossover, settings for adjustment...and designed I am told when Dan D'Agostino had a pair of X1s and wanted a sub to go with them. He apparently had four of them with his X1s and it was supposedly earth shatteringly good.

I was very tempted to get one 2nd hand when the chance came up. I spoke with several people incl a few members here. The votes were split...many strongly in favour, and a few against (mainly due to concerns about an aging amp...the Master Ref had an entire Krell FPB650 inside).

 

[Bodhi]

Krell Master Ref Sub is a serious contender according to 3 people I know who've spent real time with it over the years. Designed many years ago, in a similar fashion to the QSub...opposite facing 15' drivers, weighs over 400lbs with solid 1 inch to 2 inch thick aluminium baffle. Apparently loads of crossover, settings for adjustment...and designed I am told when Dan D'Agostino had a pair of X1s and wanted a sub to go with them. He apparently had four of them with his X1s and it was supposedly earth shatteringly good.

I was very tempted to get one 2nd hand when the chance came up. I spoke with several people incl a few members here. The votes were split...many strongly in favour, and a few against (mainly due to concerns about an aging amp...the Master Ref had an entire Krell FPB650 inside).

That would be an interesting shoot out...the old classic vs the new kid on the block

 

[Bodhi]

I have no doubt they are very fine products, but I wonder if they are specifically voiced to work with Magico Q series products. Also, not that I am searching, but I haven't seen any reviews of these.

Caesar, I think you're right. I suspect most customers for Qsub will likely use this product in a dedicated home theater with Q or S series fronts, sides & rears where you want the massive subterranean bass. It's horses for courses...if I had a pair of TSW Apogee Diva's, I would order a pair of WB Torus IG's which are much faster than Qsub due to their twin-motor arrangement & would better match the super fast panels

 

[LL21]

That would be an interesting shoot out...the old classic vs the new kid on the block

For sure! Krell Master Ref Sub vs Magico Q18 Sub...mind your ears!

 

[audioguy]

Dallas, you may be right. My initial thinking was the sub-woofers are a pure commodity product, as we can only "feel" the lower registers. So anything with a large size, decent specs, and good engineering reputation is pretty much interchangeable. But like with everything else in this hobby, there is a divergence of opinions...

Having owned many well thought of subs, they are NOT a pure commodity product. They measure and sound differently. In fact, I had 3 subs from 3 different companies in my room at the same time (Velodyne DD-18, SVS PB-13, Seaton SubMersive). All very different.

 

[dallasjustice]

Dallas, you may be right. My initial thinking was the sub-woofers are a pure commodity product, as we can only "feel" the lower registers. So anything with a large size, decent specs, and good engineering reputation is pretty much interchangeable. But like with everything else in this hobby, there is a divergence of opinions...

Yes. Everyone has an opinion.

The best thing to do is find a good sub or a pair and listen. IMO, one needs measurement equipment and competence to integrate subs. Unfortunately, most folks "wing it" with their ear listening to bass track over and over. You might get lucky and be happy with that method, but I doubt it.