Which is Better Sound From High Power: Single Tube SET or Parallel Tube SET?

[DasguteOhr]

Id say CAT does a better resemblance then lets say New audio frontiers , Alieno , Audionote UK , KONDO and on and on.

Sibatone is a good SET on the right transducer as its more neutral

Most other SET s are highly coloured imo and one can better go for a KT 88 VAC in my view .
To get both Tube Magic and Bass control

As with any tube amp, it depends on the operating point of the tube and how it sounds. the bass control is mainly determined by the power supply and the quality of the output transformer. the distortion potential is higher with set amps at their performance limit (no common mode rejection ,no global feedback loop) than with push-pull.
with the right choice of speakers you won't hear any difference between amplifier concepts. there are good and bad concepts in all amplifiers no matter what the amplifying element is, tube or transistor

 

[PeterA]

Isn’t the idea behind finding a good SET amplifier and speaker combination keeping the amplifier well below its performance limits for low distortion? Then you get the benefits without the penalty.

 

[morricab]

14 watts

Pretty weak for a GM70

 

[bonzo75]

Pretty weak for a GM70

not looking for more power. I am primarily 45, 46, 2a3. Today compared a DET 25 10 watt amp from Vietnam on the pnoe which was excellent. DET 25 is a special type of 10y that gives a guy more power. So the GM70 is doing better than 2a3 at least in a direct compare and I am quite sure will better than the Shindo 300b when we do compare.

the only speaker I like that works on SETs and needs more drive is the universum. For other SET driven speakers I like 14 is puh-lenty. Not to mention that drive is another factor

 

[Kingrex]

I am starting to think the topology is not as important as the materials and details applied in the build. The Found Music Blade I had at my house and have now ordered is a KT88 push pull. It's so far beyond anything else I have ever heard. How is it a PP amp trumps pretty much anything else. I have owned a few PP amps. They don't sound like this one.

My experience is teaching me that even with a limited amount of circuit and tube options, the transformers and the materials used to make up the circuit are more important.

 

[microstrip]

I am starting to think the topology is not as important as the materials and details applied in the build. The Found Music Blade I had at my house and have now ordered is a KT88 push pull. It's so far beyond anything else I have ever heard. How is it a PP amp trumps pretty much anything else. I have owned a few PP amps. They don't sound like this one.

My experience is teaching me that even with a limited amount of circuit and tube options, the transformers and the materials used to make up the circuit are more important.

My experience tells me that every thing matters and ranking importance of factors for quality is just a futile semantic exercise.

But I agree with you that a KT88 push pull can be an excellent choice. It is why I once bought an used stereo P100 Beard amplifier - KT88 dual mono block configuration fitted with a Partidge UK sourced PP oversized double CC core transformer. I modified it copying the Pierre Loyez input / drive circuit with better components - and it sounded great.
But KT88 push pull can be pentode or ultralinear. What are you gettting?

 

[Kingrex]

My experience tells me that every thing matters and ranking importance of factors for quality is just a futile semantic exercise.

But I agree with you that a KT88 push pull can be an excellent choice. It is why I once bought an used stereo P100 Beard amplifier - KT88 dual mono block configuration fitted with a Partidge UK sourced PP oversized double CC core transformer. I modified it copying the Pierre Loyez input / drive circuit with better components - and it sounded great.
But KT88 push pull can be pentode or ultralinear. What are you gettting?

I think its pentode with a input transformer splitting the phase, not a tube. And all Monolith iron. And a Mercury Vapor rectifier. The wiring inside is what is unique. Its very well though out and applied in standards that are only what I hear from really skilled tradesmen putting their own hands on the work. Not some kid they trained to put a device on a board.

 

[KeithR]

Lol , so you wanna state that your ...." SET " sounds like a live event ??
Please confirm this is getting funny;

I don’t see SET amps sounding like a live event at all. So Brad is being a little over the top on his comments because everyone has a different opinion of what a live event sound like.

 

[bonzo75]

I don’t see SET amps sounding like a live event at all.

That is super ignorant then. Unless you played them on the wrong speakers. There is no reason to take on someone who is only SETs by just an equally ridiculous opposing statement, and plus selecting to quote the one comment on the thread that had no experience on SETs and generalized on SETs not heard.

 

[morricab]

That is super ignorant then. Unless you played them on the wrong speakers. There is no reason to take on someone who is only SETs by just an equally ridiculous opposing statement, and plus selecting to quote the one comment on the thread that had no experience on SETs and generalized on SETs not heard.

Well, I am not only SET...the new Aries Cerat technology is as good or better than SET. There are a few hybrids from Ypsilon, TLA and Alieno that also deliver the goods. A couple of push pull triode amps are very promising as well like the big 300B one from Thrax. I also still like OTL sound...at least the ones that don't sound a bit thin. Ones equipped with 6C33C output tubes seem to do quite well in terms of that spooky transparency with enough "meat on the bones".

 

[DasguteOhr]

My experience tells me that every thing matters and ranking importance of factors for quality is just a futile semantic exercise.

But I agree with you that a KT88 push pull can be an excellent choice. It is why I once bought an used stereo P100 Beard amplifier - KT88 dual mono block configuration fitted with a Partidge UK sourced PP oversized double CC core transformer. I modified it copying the Pierre Loyez input / drive circuit with better components - and it sounded great.
But KT88 push pull can be pentode or ultralinear. What are you gettting?

When kt88 amp this ironpig. fast liquid sound and a bass like a vise ruthless control i don't know any other kt 88 pushpull amp that can do that.I now love subtle triodes more than the sledgehammer
P.S
you can listen to music very well with both, in the end it's a question of personal preference no better only diffrent

 

[bonzo75]

Well, I am not only SET...the new Aries Cerat technology is as good or better than SET. There are a few hybrids from Ypsilon, TLA and Alieno that also deliver the goods. A couple of push pull triode amps are very promising as well like the big 300B one from Thrax. I also still like OTL sound...at least the ones that don't sound a bit thin. Ones equipped with 6C33C output tubes seem to do quite well in terms of that spooky transparency with enough "meat on the bones".

Ypsilon hybrid which was 45k euro or so is utterly boring with lack of drive (which is why one would get a hybrid. Luxman m800 was much better than it in a direct compare on Vivids. I have also heard it on Soundlabs and another vivid system.

The Ypsilon hybrid that you heard at Munich with Wilsons was then the later model at double the price and wattage.

I have heard the Alieno on 2 different magico systems with extensive tube rolls and on Cessaro zeta with compare to Trafomatic Elysium, and on Cessaro Opus, all outside Munich, with tube rolls.

If TLA is Trulife, their expensive phono is not as good as Allnic 3000 once the Allnic recti is rolled, and their amp could not drive Focals.

As for OTL, each OTL sounds very different, at least between Einstein and Atmasphere. The Berning (ZOTL, not OTL) was easily better than einstein, as was their preamp.

 

[Argonaut]

I don’t see SET amps sounding like a live event at all. So Brad is being a little over the top on his comments because everyone has a different opinion of what a live event sound like.

Well … Were one to take into account that Brad‘s then partner of many years is a professional concert violinist , and with whom he attended many Live classical concerts , Then one might consider that his opinion of which topology of amplification , owned or heard , comes the closest to an approximation of a live music event should be taken note of.

 

[Al M.]

Well … Were one to take into account that Brad‘s then partner of many years is a professional concert violinist , and with whom he attended many Live classical concerts , Then one might consider that his opinion of which topology of amplification , owned or heard , comes the closest to an approximation of a live music event should be taken note of.

Sure, I have lots of experience with live concert sound as well *) and I still fail to hear the special magic of SET, even though I have liked systems with SETs in them. Everyone hears differently.

____________

*) of course, we could have a discussion about who has the most or the most meaningful live experience, but that is bound to degrade into a debate akin to who has the biggest

 

[bonzo75]

Sure, I have lots of experience with live concert sound as well *) and I still fail to hear the special magic of SET, even though I have liked systems with SETs in them. Everyone hears differently.

in your case the problem is the SETs experience with right speakers. At least, the ones you have documented, unless you are secretly keeping to yourself many others that you have heard, but don’t want to disclose because you are going to buy them and don’t want people to front run with the Al M premium

 

[Al M.]

in your case the problem is the SETs experience with right speakers. At least, the ones you have documented, unless you are secretly keeping to yourself many others that you have heard, but don’t want to disclose because you are going to buy them and don’t want people to front run with the Al M premium

All the SETs that I have heard were paired with speakers that they could easily drive.

 

[bonzo75]

All the SETs that I have heard were paired with speakers that they could easily drive.

like two? All for Al

 

[morricab]

Ypsilon hybrid which was 45k euro or so is utterly boring with lack of drive (which is why one would get a hybrid. Luxman m800 was much better than it in a direct compare on Vivids. I have also heard it on Soundlabs and another vivid system.

The Ypsilon hybrid that you heard at Munich with Wilsons was then the later model at double the price and wattage.

I have heard the Alieno on 2 different magico systems with extensive tube rolls and on Cessaro zeta with compare to Trafomatic Elysium, and on Cessaro Opus, all outside Munich, with tube rolls.

If TLA is Trulife, their expensive phono is not as good as Allnic 3000 once the Allnic recti is rolled, and their amp could not drive Focals.

As for OTL, each OTL sounds very different, at least between Einstein and Atmasphere. The Berning (ZOTL, not OTL) was easily better than einstein, as was their preamp.

I actually prefer the much less expensive Phaeton integrated...IMO, this amp sounds excellent and has tons of drive.

The TLA amps used last year on Goebel in Munich were very good...especially with the Kronos TT (I think the phono was Kronos and not TLA). The GRAAF GM20 and GM200 are excellent as were my Silvaweld OTL monos (K.S. Park of Allnic fame). I have not been a big fan of Atmasphere when he uses the 6AS7 output tubes...I haven't heard his Novacron though, which uses 6C33C tubes. The Einstein OTL is quite good but not the last word and not good value for how much it costs.

 

[bonzo75]

I actually prefer the much less expensive Phaeton integrated...IMO, this amp sounds excellent and has tons of drive.

the phaeton is good. I compared it to the MBL on 111

 

[morricab]

Well … Were one to take into account that Brad‘s then partner of many years is a professional concert violinist , and with whom he attended many Live classical concerts , Then one might consider that his opinion of which topology of amplification , owned or heard , comes the closest to an approximation of a live music event should be taken note of.

I don't bother with such feedback...it comes from an uneducated position that doesn't recognize that others might have a bit more understanding in an area than they do. They BS so of course you must be also...right??