Dan Wright of Modwright ships his PS 9.0 Power Supply with a 1A fuse, but recommends going to 2 or 3A if you are using an expensive aftermarket fuse. I've used 2A for more than a decade without any issues.
Who’s up for a $2800 fuse?
- Thread starter KeithR
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@Kingrex. From what I’ve read, your understanding is only correct for those developers who design for close tolerance: Many others don’t, fusing a few times higher, and for good reason: given the variety of setups, users, electrical feeds and circumstances of use, developers will build in a wider tolerance to minimize customer dissatisfaction and warranty returns for blown fuses.
There’s also a misunderstanding about the choice of a bit higher amperage for certain fuses. Take the SR fuses. They are not built to industry standards, hence are apt to blow in equipment that have stronger start up surges. Going up a value will in effect make the fuse act like a properly built lower spec value would.
There’s also a misunderstanding about the choice of a bit higher amperage for certain fuses. Take the SR fuses. They are not built to industry standards, hence are apt to blow in equipment that have stronger start up surges. Going up a value will in effect make the fuse act like a properly built lower spec value would.
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They are blowing because they are not made right or to spec, if you have to start raising the amperage on a fuse to go way above what the unit is rated for that should scare the hell out of you if you have a power surge and 2nd tells you how poorly these homemade fuses are made. It is irresponsible of these sellers and is BS that they blow is due to the cause of high tolerance, it is the opposite, but they are money to be made. Not a bad side job at $2,000 a pop.
Anything you change in a decent system will give you a slightly different sound, all of these types of tweaks cannot ever lose because they will all change the sound be it a better ceramic fuse vs. glass, or those who peddle $2,000 fuses, and all in between.
All cables change the sound no matter the cost from a $300.00 to $30,000 power cords do also, but your room should be your number 1 concern so spend the same $2,000 on your room, that will be money well spent, but if you are so well off that you can toss $2,000 at fuses, well more power to you go for it. But that money can be better used elsewhere in your system.
Then send some money to the Ukraine Charity while you spending $2,000 on fuses, that same amount of money would help real people who are in need, and that be money better spent than on a fuse that is less reliable than a 15 cent fuse. In my lifetime besides failing once in a blue moon or blowing from a power surge I've had them in my gear for years and years and never an issue like some are experiencing.
Anything you change in a decent system will give you a slightly different sound, all of these types of tweaks cannot ever lose because they will all change the sound be it a better ceramic fuse vs. glass, or those who peddle $2,000 fuses, and all in between.
All cables change the sound no matter the cost from a $300.00 to $30,000 power cords do also, but your room should be your number 1 concern so spend the same $2,000 on your room, that will be money well spent, but if you are so well off that you can toss $2,000 at fuses, well more power to you go for it. But that money can be better used elsewhere in your system.
Then send some money to the Ukraine Charity while you spending $2,000 on fuses, that same amount of money would help real people who are in need, and that be money better spent than on a fuse that is less reliable than a 15 cent fuse. In my lifetime besides failing once in a blue moon or blowing from a power surge I've had them in my gear for years and years and never an issue like some are experiencing.
If one has a good conditioner or regenerator in front of the rest of the equipment, then the chances of the latter being taken out by a power surge are awfully small, even if one lives in a place prone to electrical storms. Plus, if a 6.3A fuse acts like a 5A one to surges, I’m missing the problem.
Who says a $2000 fuse can’t transform a system (whatever goes into its pricing)? Is that experience or prejudice talking? I’ve had a $150 fuse do that, so much that I felt like tossing the system out the window. There’s a review out there, if I recall correctly, that found the upper level QSA’s do transform systems in the way that much more expensive equipment might. In principle, that makes sense to me because a fuse is an extension of the power cord. Who says we’re getting the most out of cords, and that a fuse couldn’t do better, maybe a whole lot better, in what the power supply sees?
Who says a $2000 fuse can’t transform a system (whatever goes into its pricing)? Is that experience or prejudice talking? I’ve had a $150 fuse do that, so much that I felt like tossing the system out the window. There’s a review out there, if I recall correctly, that found the upper level QSA’s do transform systems in the way that much more expensive equipment might. In principle, that makes sense to me because a fuse is an extension of the power cord. Who says we’re getting the most out of cords, and that a fuse couldn’t do better, maybe a whole lot better, in what the power supply sees?
...by nature, I'm simpatico with @Kingrex on this, but I understand the other side of the argument (as does Rex, I'm sure); however I wonder about the longevity of the QSA fuses and whether they change over time.
They appear to be "ordinary" fuses that are treated. I say "appear" to be as I have no definitive info, although I have seen enlarged photos.
If they are treated, is the metallurgical change permanent?
Some folks I know and respect place the QSA fuses (upper levels, eg silver) as akin to, or better than, a power cable change. That's a pretty good endorsement.
Across many, many years I have never blown a fuse in audio gear. Never "blown" a power cable either, for the record. I am following along with great interest.
They appear to be "ordinary" fuses that are treated. I say "appear" to be as I have no definitive info, although I have seen enlarged photos.
If they are treated, is the metallurgical change permanent?
Some folks I know and respect place the QSA fuses (upper levels, eg silver) as akin to, or better than, a power cable change. That's a pretty good endorsement.
Across many, many years I have never blown a fuse in audio gear. Never "blown" a power cable either, for the record. I am following along with great interest.
Never had on pe blow from an external surge, although I understand it’s not uncommon in parts of Colorado. I did have a 3.15A SR Orange blow in the separate power supply of a Supratek preamp that was doing fine until I ran IC from it to a pair of subs, even though the latter didn’t have power cords connected. Went to 4A and it’s been ok ever since.
So a fuse can sound as good as an upgraded piece of electronics gear, if you believe that then god bless you. Enjoy! No way no how for me.
I was at Martys last week. Marty is a tuning genious. But his room is also something special. If I could find a way to make $4k (monoblocks) in fuses be directed towards my room, i would start putting mental energy towards that. I have been in a couple nice room now and I truely believe a good room will trump most any other modifications you can make to anything in your system.
FWIW, I am in no way discounting the value people are finding in fuses. I don't doubt they are on a level of power cord changes. It just bothers me how these things blow so easy. I had 2 blue blow on me. I put the glass back in and no issues.
My new AMR Gold showed up yesterday for my Dartzeel. I don't get home till Wednesday so I have not tried them. I will jump on that right away.
So a fuse can sound as good as an upgraded piece of electronics gear, if you believe that then god bless you. Enjoy! No way no how for me.
Since you quoted my post, I’ll reply. Simple answer: please re-read mine. Your reply entirely misses my thought about what a fuse can bring and (part of) why.
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Fun thread and as always enjoy everyone's posts. There have been parallel threads to some degree on this topic on WBF recently.
That said, in my opinion anyway, @romaz always posts cogent, detailed and equally technical but easy to understand analyses.
You all may have already seen, but from the QSA thread @romaz detailed review:
www.whatsbestforum.com
FWIW, I have enjoyed Orange SR fuses in my system and continue to contemplate Purple. Never had a SR fuse blow across multiple components. But, it is, for me, hard to swallow much more $ for a fuse at this time, but I would have said a lot of things I would never do a few years ago that I have now done lol.
That said, in my opinion anyway, @romaz always posts cogent, detailed and equally technical but easy to understand analyses.
You all may have already seen, but from the QSA thread @romaz detailed review:
QSA : My take on their expensive products
My friends and I are interested in QSA fuses and power receptacles only. However they offer so many models : https://quantum-science-audio.com/ A HK retailer is my friend and he agreed to lend us some of the models for home-trials. Not many, only 5 models of fuses and 3 models of power...
www.whatsbestforum.com
FWIW, I have enjoyed Orange SR fuses in my system and continue to contemplate Purple. Never had a SR fuse blow across multiple components. But, it is, for me, hard to swallow much more $ for a fuse at this time, but I would have said a lot of things I would never do a few years ago that I have now done lol.
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Thanks for the link. Until the QSA Reds arrive, my system uses a combo of Oranges and AM Ultimate Premiers. I did’t like the SR Carbon Discs, so asked Alfred of Highend Electronics to exchange a Purple for them. It went into a P15 regenerator, so it affects everything, and is 55 hours in. So far its effect has been what others have said relative to the Orange by a clear margin: more balanced, larger stage, greater sense of presence and clearer. What I haven’t heard yet in the dry vs lifelike continuum is much of the latter, unlike the Orange. Have to see what turns out after another 200 hours (10 days) and an upgraded preamp returns.
So a fuse can sound as good as an upgraded piece of electronics gear, if you believe that then god bless you. Enjoy! No way no how for me.
I would not be so quick to dismiss what some alterations to the power supply can do to an audio product. What about tubes in a tube preamp or DAC. What about a speaker cable. What about dedicated power lines or a great filter. Any of these alterations can have a significant impact on the voicing of a component. I would not out of hand say a fuse could not. I have not heard it myself. But I would not say it is an impossibility. I have heard all the other I mentioned have a dramatic impact on the performance of my equipment. Enough so one could say its equivalent to purchasing the next higher model in the line.
Interesting post from Paul McGowan of PS Audio today:
The problem with fuses
I remember the first time I heard the improvements brought by an upgraded fuse. It was a few years ago and our German distributor, Jurgen, was visiting. We were in the middle of a listening session and he asked if I might be up for an experiment. Of course! He pulled the top off the DirectStream DAC and took control of the listening session.
I was told only that we’re now listening to A and then B (and so forth). I hadn’t a clue what he was doing nor which was A or B. The difference between the two was rather remarkable. If memory serves the upgraded fuse he was pulling in and out was from Audio Tuning.
I was dumbfounded by the level of improvement from replacing that fuse. Hell, I was dumbfounded that a fuse could even make a difference, let alone that much.
That experience led us to start paying attention to the fuses our purchasing department acquired and, eventually, to spec only specific types for our products. Like we do for other passive components like resistors and capacitors.
What we ship with our products are excellent sounding fuses (though not expensive aftermarket types). Can one do better? I am certain there will be those that believe this to be true (and it probably is).
However, there comes a point where spending hundreds of dollars on a component whose sole purpose is to give its life might just be a questionable practice.
What happens if it does its job?
There just might be more practical means of making improvements in sound quality.
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Paul's Post : The problem with fuses
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| 10:01 AM (6 hours ago) | |||
The problem with fuses
I remember the first time I heard the improvements brought by an upgraded fuse. It was a few years ago and our German distributor, Jurgen, was visiting. We were in the middle of a listening session and he asked if I might be up for an experiment. Of course! He pulled the top off the DirectStream DAC and took control of the listening session.
I was told only that we’re now listening to A and then B (and so forth). I hadn’t a clue what he was doing nor which was A or B. The difference between the two was rather remarkable. If memory serves the upgraded fuse he was pulling in and out was from Audio Tuning.
I was dumbfounded by the level of improvement from replacing that fuse. Hell, I was dumbfounded that a fuse could even make a difference, let alone that much.
That experience led us to start paying attention to the fuses our purchasing department acquired and, eventually, to spec only specific types for our products. Like we do for other passive components like resistors and capacitors.
What we ship with our products are excellent sounding fuses (though not expensive aftermarket types). Can one do better? I am certain there will be those that believe this to be true (and it probably is).
However, there comes a point where spending hundreds of dollars on a component whose sole purpose is to give its life might just be a questionable practice.
What happens if it does its job?
There just might be more practical means of making improvements in sound quality.
Post Comment ?
Get my book, The Audiophile's Guide
Get my memoirs, 99% True
Watch today's video
Listen to today's podcast
While I’m not an engineer or electronics expert, thinking out loud I feel safe in hypothesizing that aftermarket fuses have the potential to do (at least) two things, beyond protecting a circuit: 1) let more of what’s in the AC cord, it’s quality, get through to the power supply, and 2) reshape the sound per the developer’s design. The first is particularly interesting because it implies that there’s a lot of what’s designed into power cords that isn’t getting through to power supplies because of fuses (or circuit breakers). If true, that would lead to thinking that a straight-through connection from cord to power supply would be sonically superior, given a power cord’s quality. Is that true? I know that’s what the modifier of my Oppo 203 claimed, and I have no basis to argue. But then, I have protection in front of it in the form of a regenerator. In this light, and given the need for circuit protection, what SR, AM, QSA and others are doing makes sense, whatever the price.
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Kind of validing Paul talks about fuses as very important. Paul being all about power makes sense he recognizes the value of good component in the PS. I have heard a power cord change the performance of a P10. Only makes sense a fuse would do the same.
I am not doubting fuse performance, though I have yet to try one.
What I don't know are the ratings; how is this determined and validated? Does each fuse off the line for higher end fuses receive some type of QA with documents to support?
What I don't know are the ratings; how is this determined and validated? Does each fuse off the line for higher end fuses receive some type of QA with documents to support?
Answer is no with aftermarket fuses. You have to do research, i.e., forums or speak with vendors to find which ones are in effect built to industry standards and which it’s wise to go up an amperage value or two with. That said, fuse makers give at least 30 day replacement/return and QSA is 2 years on blown fuses (up to 2 or 3x). With SR and QSA, it’s wise to go up, especially if they are going to be used in tube electronics or SS amps with large transformers, hence greater initial current draw at startup (exception might be tubes that slow start).
Doesn't using a fuse not to the rated spec void the warranty for your component? How is this not a concern to everyone who goes this route?
I haven’t encountered this issue, but can think of ways to overcome it. Plus, I suspect that most high end developers know aftermarket fuses are being used, which is perhaps one reason many (but not all) spec their fuse much higher than the design strictly calls for. Plus, think about the conditions that would cause their OEM fuse to blow: it would either be an outside surge that would blow anything, such as an electrical storm, or user malfeasance, against which you’d have to plead for help anyway. All that said, a good conditioner or regenerator in front should seriously minimize the chances of a problem.
Keep the original fuse and reinstall it if you send the gear in for repair.
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