I never said you're going to go deaf. What I'm saying is that if you have audio playing at 120 dB (or even 90 dB for that matter), you're not that likely to be able to hear anything at the ATH level.
I am not "playing at 120 db." My average level is far, far lower. But the system has dynamic range that allows it, for moments in time, to peak that high as existed if I were at the live venue. If that is too loud for me, then I can turn the volume down.
If you are so worried about this issue, why not campaign to have amplifiers no more than certain watts? And volume controls with limiters in them?
And even if you could, I'd like to see the loudspeaker that has a low enough THD/IMD spec to avoid adding distortion that completely buries your LSBs.
This is a forum argument that is constantly put forward without proper foundation. There is no assurance that quantization noise automatically gets masked by THD of the downstream devices. Distortions are additive. One doesn't replace the other.
Besides, the goal here should not be how crappy we can make it before the customer cries. We already have the CD. Question is, can we step it up some so that we know we have headroom and ample proof that we have built a system in all cases in which it may get used, is transparent. We have the technological know-how to do that. You seem to be on a campaign to say we should not go there yet have not produced any economical or other reasons why we should. If the studio is producing in 24 bits, why should I care to decimate it? So what that I may not hear the extra headroom? Are you going to tell me how small of a house I should live in next? I say that half seriously but I hope you see the issue here. I have repeatedly made this point: tell me why I should listen to you. Make me a business case for this. Not just tugging at the quality bar to see how low you can make it and stil get away with it.
When we had dial-up modems, we killed ourselves to get music in 20kbps channels. A decade later, we don't have to do that and people routinely stream multi-megabit/sec video through their Internet channels. Their hard disk based systems can stream (locally) dozens of audio channels in highest resolution. And the cost to store the bits is nothing compared to the cost to buy the music. Tell me why I should not move with the times. As you, I used to care about squeezing all the bits out. But now? I don't live in the past anymore.
It is like you running a bank and deciding that anytime I go to withdraw $200, you are going to take 5 cents out because it won't matter to me. That might be right but folks are sensitive about that. Go and convince the pros to never use anything more than 16 and you may have a case there. But until they do, and the final product as the talent approves is 24 bits, then give them out if the labels are willing to do it and customers want it. You can take those bits and decimate them to 10 bits if you like and none of us would care or shed a tear
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That being said, you have an "easy" way of settling the issue for good. Can you find a realistic recording (e.g. existing commercial stuff, not something you make up just for this argument) where one can hear the difference between 24 bits and 16 bits? Could be a "commercial" (i.e. something you can buy in a store) music recording, a movie, ...
I provided the AES research data on dynamic range of real concert halls, the ability to capture the same, and the noise floor of listening rooms. That was not good enough for you? If not, why would further data?
Have Ethan introduce you to his friend and forum member, Basspig and you will get real education on how much dynamic range is desired and available to folks
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But again, this is not about proving what is audible. It is about you proving why decimation of the bits *must* occur as if there is some harm to me. You have not made any case for that. After all, if there is decimation needed, I can apply it using my favorite style of dither and noise shaping. I personally am very comfortable with Bob's recommendations that we could even go down to 14 bits with proper signal processing. But based on all the arguments I have had with people in this area, I am confident that few people understand and know how to perform the proper conversion. So I say don't do it. Give the bits. Get out of trying to justify why decimating is good for me. And let's move on with life and pursuit of real knowledge that matters.
