Why CDs May Actually Sound Better Than Vinyl

[thedudeabides]

Thank you gentlemen for expanding my vocabulary skills.

RE poll results. Just confirms the subjective nature of this hobby. There is no best.

 

[Sal1950]

Vinyl is miles ahead in the "boys with toys" factor!
Imagine the poor computer-digital lover having his buds over for a listen.
What does he have to put on the magic show with?
Watch me insert my Regen stick?

 

[rbbert]

...What fascinates me is that even though digital is ubiquitous, far more convenient, less expensive and measures much better, vinyl still has a very strong following and is preferred by roughly half of this small community of audiophiles. And people are still trying to improve it. It reminds me of the boating world where there is still a strong interest in sailing, despite the expense and effort involved.

Actually, if you look at the numbers about 1/3 prefer LP's, about 1/3 prefer digital and about 1/3 are happy with both (or either?). The analogy that came to my mind wasn't sailing but rather motorcycles, where (at least in the USA) Harley-Davidson still has a strong presence, despite their bikes really having nothing to recommend them except nostalgia and rider fellowship.

 

[rockitman]

No consensus yet ? I'll check back next week....lol

 

[TBone]

Vinyl is miles ahead in the "boys with toys" factor!
Imagine the poor computer-digital lover having his buds over for a listen.
What does he have to put on the magic show with?
Watch me insert my Regen stick?

... although if you've tagged your rips "LP" or "Analog" ... -that- must count for something?

 

[fas42]

What fascinates me is that even though digital is ubiquitous, far more convenient, less expensive and measures much better, vinyl still has a very strong following and is preferred by roughly half of this small community of audiophiles.

That's because you forgot to insert in the above:

"... less expensive and measures much better, and much harder to reproduce artifact free, vinyl still has a very strong following ..."

 

[fas42]

For me it was an "uber" system, because the key ingredients, amplifier and speakers, were not cheap; for me, it delivered "uber" performance; the brands involved, Bryston and Dynaudio, are well known as no nonsense, technology driven companies, who only use audiophile approved terms in their advertising to appeal to potential buyers - the "scientific method" was that used to develop these products.

Just to clarify one point, it was the http://www.dynaudio.com/home-audio/confidence/c4-platinum/ units I heard.

 

[PeterA]

That's because you forgot to insert in the above:

"... less expensive and measures much better, and much harder to reproduce artifact free, vinyl still has a very strong following ..."

Thanks Frank. You are lucky that you do not notice the fatigue inducing artifacts in most digital.

 

[NorthStar]

Vinyl is miles ahead in the "boys with toys" factor!
Imagine the poor computer-digital lover having his buds over for a listen.
What does he have to put on the magic show with?
Watch me insert my Regen stick?

Lol, good one.

 

[fas42]

Thanks Frank. You are lucky that you do not notice the fatigue inducing artifacts in most digital.

You misunderstand. I most certainly notice the artifacts, probably more than most - which is why I work so hard in reducing them in my own systems. Decades ago, I got so fed up with this battle that I gave away listening to serious audio for many years, it bugged me too much, hearing the deficiencies in all of them. Only after going to a high end audio show, and hearing what the latest crop were getting at times, motivated me to get back into it again ...

 

[sbo6]

What fascinates me is that even though digital is ubiquitous, far more convenient, less expensive and measures much better, vinyl still has a very strong following and is preferred by roughly half of this small community of audiophiles. And people are still trying to improve it. It reminds me of the boating world where there is still a strong interest in sailing, despite the expense and effort involved.

Agreed. Anything that furthers sonics irrespective of the format is a good thing. You could also add R2R to the list with it's slow but consistent resurgence.

 

[Rodney Gold]

I went to listen to a Genesis setup , full dcs top of the line stack ...
they played all sorts of digital music in different formats and some analog (not sure of the setup , but it was cost no object)
It ALL sounded rubbish and all formats sounded the same.. the room was cavernous with no treatment whatsover (and cavernous means it was something like 25m x 20m )
giving rise to the finding that the format makes no difference is the setup isnt optimised

 

[Jim Smith]

giving rise to the finding that the format makes no difference is the setup isnt optimised

Agreed 100%!

 

[NorthStar]

I didn't want to post in this thread anymore because life is beautiful no matter of what music medium is spinning between vinyl and CD.
Two, I didn't want to see 1,000 posts. :b
I was going to simply start a new thread in the name of music repertoire, science and vibrations...centrifuge field force resonances and transmitted over the tonearm/cart marriage to finally end up @ the terminals of our loudspeaker's drivers, and into our ears.
It's an analog love affair, with bass being the place, and digital being out of space. ? Humor only.

Anyway, I decided @ the ultimatum end of it all to simply post here once more. I was thinking that perhaps there is another thread discussing this very subject.
And it's true that in order to have that bass right in that room there are mathematical measurements of right balance acoustically and scientifically, and also anything recorded that is true to the real event is helping us in achieving that 'bass is the place' goal. This is strictly stereo here, vinyl and CD. For bass from movies we need another thread all together, with state-of-the-art home theater room. Then, "bass is truly the place".

Ok, I talk way too much, like a long introduction, various subjects, and it's not necessary but we all do what we do because we are us with all that come with it since we were born and life is not immortal.
This link most likely some of you already have read it; if not it's a good read in learning some more about what is known and maybe less known but still good to know:
• http://www.theanalogdept.com/images/spp6_pics/TT_Design/MechanicalResonances.pdf

How much of those mechanical resonances escaped and are transmitted by our loudspeakers...is something I let you assess @ finding the best solutions to resolve them and lesser them and be happy with the overall results.
And, CD too have its own mechanical resonances, but in a very different way that is less comparable.

This is the TT emphasis in spinning that vinyl record on that platter with the tonearm/cart interaction I'm thinking of right now.
As for the tics and pops, I agree; they become irrelevant and don't take away from the music experience with a state-of-the-art record cleaning machine and a well maintained quality stylus from a good quality cartridge (smooth tracker). ...Even a brand new vinyl record benefits from a wash/clean/dry process...with ultrasonic detergent.
I don't believe in removing them digitally from ripping them; it's like a tape that you erase some of the music from it. Vinyl was not invented to be ripped, but to be play as is.
If you want to rip might as well go digital all the way. Don't spoil the beauty of analog; just clean it good physically.

I remember when I was first impressed with the bass coming from speakers...the audio dealer was demoing CDs. ...That was in the mid 80s...1986's corner.
I even remember some of those CD music titles. In another thread @ another time... :b

Check that link; I think it's a good link...for me, and maybe for some of you.

 

[microstrip]

(...)

Ok, I talk way too much, like a long introduction, various subjects, and it's not necessary but we all do what we do because we are us with all that come with it since we were born and life is not immortal.
This link most likely some of you already have read it; if not it's a good read in learning some more about what is known and maybe less known but still good to know:
• http://www.theanalogdept.com/images/spp6_pics/TT_Design/MechanicalResonances.pdf
(...)

Yes, it is an often quoted famous paper of 1977. Unfortunately it shows how slow the audio industry can be when defining standards for measurements that really matter in terms of sound quality. Almost 40 years ago, the leaders of manufacturing measurement equipment found that the classical measurements were not the appropriate ones. But reviews of turntables went on undisturbed, publishing just them and many times ranking turntables objectively on these parameters ...

 

[jeromelang]

Perhaps some users here are not fully realising the potential of their turntable setups until they set it up in a separate room away from their speakers?

Conversely, by placing their turntable out of the travel paths of the sound waves, would they also be running the risk of losing some of the "magic" that makes vinyl so enjoyable in the first place?

 

[Ron Resnick]

Perhaps some users here are not fully realising the potential of their turntable setups until they set it up in a separate room away from their speakers?

Conversely, by placing their turntable out of the travel paths of the sound waves, would they also be running the risk of losing some of the "magic" that makes vinyl so enjoyable in the first place?

I think these are interesting questions. We (the "collective we") spend time on mechanical grounding techniques and Stillpoints (or whatever) and anti-vibration tweaks and yet we do not seem to spend a lot of time analyzing the sonic impact of turntables in the line of fire of woofers.

 

[jeromelang]

I think these are interesting questions. We (the "collective we") spend time on mechanical grounding techniques and Stillpoints (or whatever) and anti-vibration tweaks and yet we do not seem to spend a lot of time analyzing the sonic impact of turntables in the line of fire of woofers.

The other issue - a lot of people seems to be oblivious to is the deleterious effect of magnetic interference on cartridge/cable/electronics.

 

[microstrip]

Perhaps some users here are not fully realising the potential of their turntable setups until they set it up in a separate room away from their speakers?

Conversely, by placing their turntable out of the travel paths of the sound waves, would they also be running the risk of losing some of the "magic" that makes vinyl so enjoyable in the first place?

People tried it long ago, in the 70's, and found that some poor quality turntables in a separate room sounded better, good ones had little or no difference.

Concerning your second question, no, it was even found that improving the isolation of the turntable could make it even more "magic".

 

[PeterA]

People tried it long ago, in the 70's, and found that some poor quality turntables in a separate room sounded better, good ones had little or no difference.

Concerning your second question, no, it was even found that improving the isolation of the turntable could make it even more "magic".

I added an isolation platform to my suspended turntable and it improved the performance. It also improves the performance of digital players.