Your "World's Best Audio System" . . . 2012 Edition

[Roysen]

This makes no sense. According to the name of this system you are claiming to have colledted the worlds best audio system. There can only be one BEST. That is pretty much defined in the meaning of the word BEST. So, sorry Jeff. You are not getting away that easily. You have drawn a lot of attention to yourself, your website and the participating companies by marketing your choices as TWBAS (the worlds BEST audio system). To fulfill your promise of BEST you need to define what is best and then justify by comparision why your choices are best. Your credibility is on the line here. From the outside this seems and probably just is a collection of components from companies willing to give them to you for free in return for the marketing mumbo-jumbo you just wrote about each of these products. The description says very little about the sound from any of them. How can you know they are BEST if you don't know how they sound? If you knew and they are BEST, I am sure you would have wanted to write about that too. So for this to have any credibility you need to explain what you are looking for in your ideal system (and don't call it TWBAS - because the idea of a worlds best audio system in general terms is just plain ignorant and as a seasoned reveiwer you don't want to seem that way) and your ideal components. Then based on that tell us why you chose each of the components in your system and why others were left out based on your described critera for your ideal system.

That could be interesting. This is not!

Another issue which every experienced audiophile seems to know is totally overlooked in this system and that is synergy and matching. One of the most basic advice any seasoned audiophile would give to anyone collecting a system, is to listen to the components you are considering in your own system at home before purchasing. This most important step seems to have been skipped here. If I am wrong would you mind sharing with us the experiences you gained from that testing? If it is skipped, do you really want to stand by this approach to choosing components for any system - let alone the worlds best audio system?

How can you call this the worlds best audio system, when you don't know what all the components sound like, how they sound together in a system and how that system sounds in your room?

BTW, Worlds best audio system without a turntable?

 

[Robert]

Another issue which every experienced audiophile seems to know is totally overlooked in this system and that is synergy and matching. One of the most basic advice any seasoned audiophile would give to anyone collecting a system is to listen to the components you are considering in your own system at home before purchasing. This most important step seems to have been skipped here. If I am wrong would you mind sharing with us the experiences you gained from that testing? If it is skipped, do you really want to stand by this approach to choosing components for any system - let alone the worlds best audio system?

How can you call this the worlds best audio system, when you don't know what all the components sound like, how they sound together in a system and how that system sounds in your room?

This is precisely correct. Putting together really expensive audio components is like playing the lottery. The odds of a winning combination is highly unlikely. Maybe instead of the "TWBAS" it should be "TWBAS?". Anyway, I appreciate that this is being done in good fun and to get people excited about audio. But I hope that there is an honest assessment of the end product, particularly because one should be highly critical of results when cost is factored into the equation.

For the future, I would like to see TWBASs (little "s" for "Systems"). Put several together at different price points. You could even have people vote, although I would guess that manufacturers would not find that to be fun. You can even have a low cost, high synergy system to illustrate.

 

[Jeff Fritz]

For the future, I would like to see TWBASs (little "s" for "Systems"). Put several together at different price points. You could even have people vote, although I would guess that manufacturers would not find that to be fun. You can even have a low cost, high synergy system to illustrate.

Someone else made that suggestion after the last TWBAS and I did just that:

Benchmark Systems, Part Three: The $5000 Full-Ranger: http://ultraaudio.com/index.php?opt...e-5000-full-ranger&catid=25:opinion&Itemid=27

Benchmark Systems, Part Four: The $30,000 Resolution Monster: http://ultraaudio.com/index.php?opt...resolution-monster&catid=25:opinion&Itemid=27

There were five articles in the series.

 

[Jeff Fritz]

This makes no sense. According to the name of this system you are claiming to have colledted the worlds best audio system. There can only be one BEST. That is pretty much defined in the meaning of the word BEST. So, sorry Jeff. You are not getting away that easily. You have drawn a lot of attention to yourself, your website and the participating companies by marketing your choices as TWBAS (the worlds BEST audio system). To fulfill your promise of BEST you need to define what is best and then justify by comparision why your choices are best. Your credibility is on the line here. From the outside this seems and probably just is a collection of components from companies willing to give them to you for free in return for the marketing mumbo-jumbo you just wrote about each of these products. The description says very little about the sound from any of them. How can you know they are BEST if you don't know how they sound? If you knew and they are BEST, I am sure you would have wanted to write about that too. So for this to have any credibility you need to explain what you are looking for in your ideal system (and don't call it TWBAS - because the idea of a worlds best audio system in general terms is just plain ignorant and as a seasoned reveiwer you don't want to seem that way) and your ideal components. Then based on that tell us why you chose each of the components in your system and why others were left out based on your described critera for your ideal system.

That could be interesting. This is not!

Another issue which every experienced audiophile seems to know is totally overlooked in this system and that is synergy and matching. One of the most basic advice any seasoned audiophile would give to anyone collecting a system, is to listen to the components you are considering in your own system at home before purchasing. This most important step seems to have been skipped here. If I am wrong would you mind sharing with us the experiences you gained from that testing? If it is skipped, do you really want to stand by this approach to choosing components for any system - let alone the worlds best audio system?

How can you call this the worlds best audio system, when you don't know what all the components sound like, how they sound together in a system and how that system sounds in your room?

BTW, Worlds best audio system without a turntable?

Look, we both know that to debate and defend every single product in TWBAS as "the best" against every other respective like-kind product available is a fool's errand. As well, I don't think anyone could expect from a logistical standpoint that I receive into my room every candidate and try every combination of components before selecting the system. I've said many times that there is a real unknown factor in this project. You might be right: something might not work together as well as I would like.

And if you really think these companies are giving me these products for free, you are seriously mistaken. C'mon, man.

If you can accept this for what it is, then please enjoy it. If not, that's OK too.

 

[LL21]

Hi Flez,

I agree with Gryphon for sure! i think Jeff knows Gryphon extremely well having reviewed and owned by the Antileon Signature and the Colosseum, as well as the Allegro preamp.

Have you ever yeard the Mephisto? I have heard from one dealer (and one owner of Colosseum monos) it is supposedly not better sounding than existing Gryphon amplification...just a little more powerful, and built mainly to attract the extremely wealthy Asian market seeking rare, expensive audio equipment.

Hi Everyone,

Just an update on Mephisto. I was able to communicate with Flemming Rasmussen at Gryphon about the Mephisto myself to get the straight answer about whether this is a recast Antileon or something much more. It appears to be something much more, "very different construction", and to date has only been heard for 3 days in Asia...and otherwise not yet demonstrated at any dealers, shows or even private demonstrations.

So stay tuned... Speaking for myself, a few reviewers who have heard my current Gryphon Colosseum (and my older Antileon), as well as more than few long-in-the-tooth audiophiles who have heard my Gryphon amps, the Mephisto sounds like it should be something quite special when it formally launches.

I have asked to hear it if it ever comes round these parts...i will certainly post when i hear it.

 

[Roysen]

Jeff,

I understand why you can't tell us why your choices were prefered over every other component, I would really know why you decided as you did. I am especially interested in the Vitus choice over:

- Goldmund Telos 3500
- Boulder 3050
- Constellation Audio Herkules
- Soulution 700

I am quite sure Magico would have suggested Soulution and they also have one input- and two output- stages. You don't use the Vitus crossover anyway.

 

[andromedaaudio]

And convergent and ML s new monos , and by the way , what is the best is very personal .
These guys like another one http://durobblog.com/2012/01/31/wis...-amplification-for-flagship-studio/#more-2109

 

[Jeff Fritz]

Jeff,

I understand why you can't tell us why your choices were prefered over every other component, I would really know why you decided as you did. I am especially interested in the Vitus choice over:

- Goldmund Telos 3500
- Boulder 3050
- Constellation Audio Herkules
- Soulution 700

I am quite sure Magico would have suggested Soulution and they also have one input- and two output- stages. You don't use the Vitus crossover anyway.

Fair enough.

First, I have had experience with Vitus having reviewed the SS-101 and thinking incredibly highly of it driving Rockport Altairs -- another large multiway dynamic speaker with a 4-ohm impedance.

Second, although you are correct that the Soulution can be configured for biamping, I like the fact that the two Vitus output stages are optimized for mid/high and bass separately: the bass section will produce 500W into 8 ohms and I think that extra headroom is useful. I also admire the power supply specs -- 4.4kVA per channel (the Soulution is 2kVA per channel, not that that means it would run out of power). I think the four-chassis design is more "all out" as well (in addition to providing more space for a larger power supply, obviously).

I have never had any luck getting Goldmund to send review product. I do think the Boulder would be a wonderful choice in a single-wire setup (though I also like the Vitus no-feedback circuit design as I have had good luck with such components recently).

Hope that answers your question.

 

[Roysen]

Thanks Jeff,

So you have chosen based on specs, gut feelings and experience with other products from the same brand. That is fair enough. I have done the same. I hope that will end up with a pair of Q7s myself driven by Dynaudio Arbiter and darTZeel NHB-458 in bi-amp configuration of the speakers. My choise of amplifiers is based on hearing the Q5 with the darTZeel's and having the Dynaudio Arbiter with nothing to do.

Having said that I didn't choose the darTZeels over the Goldmund Telos 3500 because the Goldmunds will be part of my second system to tri-amplify a pair of Tidal Audio T1 with Sovereign Audio THE SOVEREIGN and a new Reference Tidal Audio mono amplifier.

The third system will be a pair of Rockport Arrakis 2 bi-amplified by Tube Research Labs Platinum GTR-800 and Krell Master Refference Amplifiers.

I also have a pair of Mark Levinson No.33 in storage. Maybe they can be useful if the Q7 can be ordered in tri-amplification mode like the CES pair.

 

[steve williams]

wow Roysen

That's 3 TWBAS in your home. Way cool

 

[Jeff Fritz]

Thanks Jeff,

So you have chosen based on specs, gut feelings and experience with other products from the same brand. That is fair enough. I have done the same. I hope that will end up with a pair of Q7s myself driven by Dynaudio Arbiter and darTZeel NHB-458 in bi-amp configuration of the speakers. My choise of amplifiers is based on hearing the Q5 with the darTZeel's and having the Dynaudio Arbiter with nothing to do.

Having said that I didn't choose the darTZeels over the Goldmund Telos 3500 because the Goldmunds will be part of my second system to tri-amplify a pair of Tidal Audio T1 with Sovereign Audio THE SOVEREIGN and a new Reference Tidal Audio mono amplifier.

The third system will be a pair of Rockport Arrakis 2 bi-amplified by Tube Research Labs Platinum GTR-800 and Krell Master Refference Amplifiers.

I also have a pair of Mark Levinson No.33 in storage. Maybe they can be useful if the Q7 can be ordered in tri-amplification mode like the CES pair.

Amazing. Having those three systems in one home will allow the singular opportunity to compare them in quick succession. I don't think anyone else in the world will be able to claim that.

I like your choices, too. Obviously with the Arrakis providing the foundation for TWBAS 2009 and the Q7 being the speaker of choice for TWBAS 2012, I simply have no higher admiration than for those products. I also really like the Tidal speakers, too. I reviewed the Piano Cera and thought it very good. Though I would like to hear the new Tidal that I think will be introduced in Munich this year. Seems Jorn is upping his game in terms of cabinet material. You may want to find out about it because I think there are some advances over the current Sunray if I read things correctly.

 

[Roysen]

Well,

A 80 square meter "listening house"/studio in my garden housing the Tidal and Rockport systems on opposite walls with the listening seats in between and the Magico system in my living room.

I could have chosen amplification more wisely and used only the same amplifiers in the same system but the curiosity to learn how different amplifiers sound got the better of me.

Preamplifiers in the three systems:
- Tube Research Labs Platinum GTR Preamplifier (Rockport Arrakis)
- FM Acoustics Resolution Series 268 (Tidal Audio T1)
- Lyra Connoisseur Definitions 3.0 (Magico Q7)

Because of this I would never call any of my systems TWBAS.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Pictures?????

 

[FrantzM]

Well,

A 80 square meter "listening house"/studio in my garden housing the Tidal and Rockport systems on opposite walls with the listening seats in between and the Magico system in my living room.

I could have chosen amplification more wisely and used only the same amplifiers in the same system but the curiosity to learn how different amplifiers sound got the better of me.

Preamplifiers in the three systems:
- Tube Research Labs Platinum GTR Preamplifier (Rockport Arrakis)
- FM Acoustics Resolution Series 268 (Tidal Audio T1)
- Lyra Connoisseur Definitions 3.0 (Magico Q7)

Because of this I would never call any of my systems TWBAS.

Roysen

You could and there wouldn't be a long line of people with any kind of objections .. Call that "Shock an Awe" ... "Check and Mate" or any expression that can translate in : "Case Closed"

 

[Robert]

Thanks Jeff,

So you have chosen based on specs, gut feelings and experience with other products from the same brand. That is fair enough. I have done the same. I hope that will end up with a pair of Q7s myself driven by Dynaudio Arbiter and darTZeel NHB-458 in bi-amp configuration of the speakers. My choise of amplifiers is based on hearing the Q5 with the darTZeel's and having the Dynaudio Arbiter with nothing to do.

Having said that I didn't choose the darTZeels over the Goldmund Telos 3500 because the Goldmunds will be part of my second system to tri-amplify a pair of Tidal Audio T1 with Sovereign Audio THE SOVEREIGN and a new Reference Tidal Audio mono amplifier.

The third system will be a pair of Rockport Arrakis 2 bi-amplified by Tube Research Labs Platinum GTR-800 and Krell Master Refference Amplifiers.

I also have a pair of Mark Levinson No.33 in storage. Maybe they can be useful if the Q7 can be ordered in tri-amplification mode like the CES pair.

Personally, I would put together a high efficiency speaker and tubed amp/preamp system. For example, the Coincident Pure Reference Extreme for a full range experience with an enchanting tubed amp. There are so many tubed amps from which to choose. For a 3rd system, why not horns? Going with Magico, Tidal, Rockport would all be full range, low efficiency choices which would require triple-digit watts instead of double-digit watts. If I had room, I'd want diversity!

 

[egidius]

Roysen

You could and there wouldn't be a long line of people with any kind of objections .. Call that "Shock an Awe" ... "Check and Mate" or any expression that can translate in : "Case Closed"

..
Oh, wasnt there just now a thread about what kind of audiophiles we are?? Maybe this would rather reveal "case not closed" (Sorry Roysen, you seem to have fantastic systems, but would you consider the cases (!) closed?)

Funnily enough, I considered my case closed, when David Berning advised me to go for the smaller ZH230 rather than the QZ's, "they give the same sound, and with your speaker are the better choice". I agreed until I heard the Audio Consulting Mipas, another case closed issue LOL.

 

[Roysen]

No, certainly not case closed. I have been constantly upgrading these systems for a couple of decades now and I have for instance three complete Audio Physic speaker systems which I can't sell in storage that I never thought I would replace when I bought them.

I also know there will be upgrades in the future. For instance I wouldn't hesitate a second if Andy Payor brought the Rockport Sirius V to market, if Boulder should release a 3008 phono stage or FM Acoustics should come out with a reference mono amplifier.

 

[Jeff Fritz]

Last one before the event at the end of the month. With a nod to Roysen for asking the question:

TWBAS 2012: Why I Chose These Components:

http://ultraaudio.com/index.php?opt...e-these-components&catid=25:opinion&Itemid=27

 

[Peter Breuninger]

Last one before the event at the end of the month. With a nod to Roysen for asking the question:

TWBAS 2012: Why I Chose These Components:

http://ultraaudio.com/index.php?opt...e-these-components&catid=25:opinion&Itemid=27

Jeff, great work!!! I am very curious as to the Q7s and their real world amp matching ability. I've heard many companies say... oh yes, Peter... our speakers are perfect for low powered amps and SETs. But when I whip out an 18 watt 845 amp and the bass is mooshy and the sound is glued to the speakers- I say what gives. Then I see sharp phase angles and impedance dips and know why. I have my fingers crossed for the Qs. Please try an 18 watt SET in a super secret listening session Shhhhhh, I won't tell anyone.

 

[Jeff Fritz]

Jeff, great work!!! I am very curious as to the Q7s and their real world amp matching ability. I've heard many companies say... oh yes, Peter... our speakers are perfect for low powered amps and SETs. But when I whip out an 18 watt 845 amp and the bass is mooshy and the sound is glued to the speakers- I say what gives. Then I see sharp phase angles and impedance dips and know why. I have my fingers crossed for the Qs. Please try an 18 watt SET in a super secret listening session Shhhhhh, I won't tell anyone.

You are so, so right, Peter. One of the most egregious cases comes from a review we did in 2001. This manufacturer claimed 94dB sensitivity: http://www.soundstagehifi.com/revequip/coincident_total_eclipse.htm

When we did NRC measurements, it was 86dB:
http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/coincident_total_eclipse/

See, measurements do matter

Really, though, if you can identify a set of drivers from Accuton or Scan-Speak, look them up on their manufacturers' websites, and see average sensitivity, then ask yourself how, when put in a box with a passive crossover in front of them, the speaker can actually be more sensitive than the raw drivers.

I will try to test the Q7s with something low powered, just for you, brotha.