Zero Distortion: Gian & Friends, CH, Montagna, Wilsons, AN IO J, Riviera,

[bonzo75]

So in the end, you didn’t find an all CH system to quite deliver all the goods, or?

When I said readers, I meant you

"
Before readers go oh, solid state on 98 db, here is some background from Gian, who preferred 2A3s compared to larger tubes:

“I compare Audio tekne Yamato with 211 vs Audiotekne TM 9502 with 6A7Sg, and this was more transparent,natural and faster,then i compared FAL with Ongaku and FAL with 2A3 was much more transparent than Ongaku. My friend had for some years M 1000 MK II and Shinden and Souga, and we tested many times with different cartridges and Souga was more dynamic and fast than Shinden

I have a speaker of 98 db with very simple network and i had 2 Kondo Souga in biamp.

I consider Souga the best tube amp i listen in my life together with Audio tekne TM 9502, and when i changed to the CH i heard the same natural sound on mid bass and midhigh of Kondo, with better bass and better high.”

So he is a guy who who knows what he is on about.

 

[gian60]

Dear Ked,when you visited me we listened only your classic music vinyl.
I listen few classic music,much more Jazz,blues,pop,electronic music,so i built my system for this music and not for classic music.
Next time you will listen my music and understood my decision

 

[bonzo75]

I like a lot open high frequencies too.

I do too. Gian listens to those at louder volumes than we do

 

[bonzo75]

Dear Ked,when you visited me we listened only your classic music vinyl.
I listen few classic music,much more Jazz,blues,pop,electronic music,so i built my system for this music and not for classic music.
Next time you will listen my music and understood my decision

I understand your decision. No questions from me. I hope next time I will be able to play some blues and jazz the General is gifting me on my birthday next month

 

[morricab]

In last days i listening ARC 750 amp,Viva Aurora,Gakuon,Ongaku,Neiro Silver,Audiotekne,from friends and shop.

I found sound of everything LITTLE dark,slow,heavy on mid bass,roll off and i i never will come back to this amp from my CH

There are tube amps that don’t sound this way you know...

 

[morricab]

When I said readers, I meant you

"
Before readers go oh, solid state on 98 db, here is some background from Gian, who preferred 2A3s compared to larger tubes:

“I compare Audio tekne Yamato with 211 vs Audiotekne TM 9502 with 6A7Sg, and this was more transparent,natural and faster,then i compared FAL with Ongaku and FAL with 2A3 was much more transparent than Ongaku. My friend had for some years M 1000 MK II and Shinden and Souga, and we tested many times with different cartridges and Souga was more dynamic and fast than Shinden

I have a speaker of 98 db with very simple network and i had 2 Kondo Souga in biamp.

I consider Souga the best tube amp i listen in my life together with Audio tekne TM 9502, and when i changed to the CH i heard the same natural sound on mid bass and midhigh of Kondo, with better bass and better high.”

So he is a guy who who knows what he is on about.

Oh , I read the whole thing but wasn’t interested in what Gian thinks because it is clear from his purchases. What wasn’t clear was your final opinion on the CH sound vs. what you hear from the better tubes you have heard.

I don’t agree that a direct comparison is always necessary to say something about the character of what you heard and how you think this fits into the sonic hierarchy...but that is another discussion.

Maybe Gian simply listens loud enough it puts small SETs under strain where they no longer sound the best?

 

[gian60]

Yes i know,
i liked Shindo 300 B limited,but 5 watt,i liked Tenor 75 otl,but too delicate,i liked Wavac 300B stereo amp,i liked FAL integrated, 4 watt,i liked Chiomenti,producer of Riviera,and Dyssanayake,bot amp with 2A3,fantastic with 2 watt
i never listen LAmm ml 3 and AC

 

[gian60]

With set i never listen loud,and also now i listen with M1 maximo 1 or 2 peak watt.
When some friends come we listen also loud to show the performance of my speaker also

 

[gian60]

I like CH.
I never listen in my home
Technical Brain,Dartzeel 468 and Costellation Altair with Hercules,
could be if i listen this will like more than CH

 

[bonzo75]

I like CH.
I never listen in my home
Technical Brain,Dartzeel 468 and Costellation Altair with Hercules,
could be if i listen this will like more than CH

I think those will be different from CH, not better. Thing is some people prefer valves. But you already know your valves, so you don't need to look back

 

[bonzo75]

WONDERFUL AS ALWAYS, Kedar!

“I agitated over this for days – I was unable to point out exactly what caused the magic here, the AN IO or the Riviera with the Mullard.”

It is so puzzling, interesting and frustrating to try to attribute things we hear among the components in the system. If we hear magic from one of several cartridge/tonearm combinations on the same turntable, how much of the magic is coming from the cartridge and how much of the magic is coming from the tonearm? Only a lot of cartridge swapping and A/B comparisons can provide the answer.

I now understand the reputation of linear tracking tonearms in general for producing airiness and delicate high frequencies and a kind of “aliveness.” I am curious to read more about your future exploration as to whether high mass turntables are required to add weight and body and solidity to the ethereal sonics of linear tracking tonearms.

I also want to understand if there are consistent sonic similarities or differences between the group of traditional linear tracking tonearms (e.g., Vyger, Bergmann Odin, Clearaudio Statement TT-1 and TT-2, Kuzma Airline) and the group of pivoting tonearms which transport the cartridge on a linear journey (e.g., Schroder LT, Reed 5T, KL Audio).

Ron, Fremer has written a lot about LTs including KL audio and the Galder. While his review were positive in a recent read, in his KL review, he has been negative on LTs from a sonic perspective, stating that distortion of a 9 inch pivot is too low to be significant in the context of the system. Fremer's review of KL in the Jan issue relate to allowing cartridge to express itself, but not having sufficient bass, weight, slam

Gian and Pietro are open to both and like their LTs. Mik and the General are massive LT fans, but air tangent, Rockport, and Vyger. Whether it is the high mass of the Vyger or the arm itself or both that has led to eradicating the light weight and bass issue I do not know. Steve Dobbins said the Schroeder LT has the best bass he heard. Mik and the General prefer the real LTs.

It is extremely difficult to do a compare of these since air tangent is almost not available and Vyger has a fixed one arm only. So someone will have to buy a multi arm table, install two arms like Bergmann Odin and Schroeder, and then compare to a Vyger. Chances of it happening in the same room are almost zero.

So only Mik and the General have been through many of these combinations in their own systems... Pivots, kuzma airline, air tangent, Vyger. I also understand that with arms like kuzma airline and Schroeder the platform is very important... Suspension and bounce can have negative effects. Vyger does not have such issues.

 

[admin1959]

Nice work here from Bonzo75.
Ked, please could you put a few photos at the start of this thread? I could them 'promote' it to Featured and it can sit on the home page, and go out in the Newsletter.

Thanks in advance.

 

[bonzo75]

Nice work here from Bonzo75.
Ked, please could you put a few photos at the start of this thread? I could them 'promote' it to Featured and it can sit on the home page, and go out in the Newsletter.

Thanks in advance.

Will do tomorrow. Out today

 

[sujay]

Hi buddy, just got around to reading your post. Superb and very valuable read as usual and very well organized. I know you have constantly been telling me to introduce tubes in the chain in my all SS set up and maybe someday I will try and do that - either phono or pre (or maybe power) though right now I do have the lampi in the chain, so a start of sorts. If and when I downsize, I will go a much simpler route and try the SET/Horn way for sure.....if I have the space

All said and done, the part of the write up that really resonated with me was the assertion around Gian and Pietro being humble and ‘unstuck’ about this hobby. It is a rare trait, especially, with so many ‘know it alls’. While I havent had the good fortune (yet) of meeting them in person, I am beginning to develop the utmost respect for our Italian friends!

Cheers....Sujay

 

[adyc]

I do too. Gian listens to those at louder volumes than we do

Do you measure SPL? My prefer listening level for orchestral music is 90+ dBA and peak 100 dBA. That’s give me most satisfaction.

 

[bonzo75]

Do you measure SPL? My prefer listening level for orchestral music is 90+ dBA and peak 100 dBA. That’s give me most satisfaction.

No but I usually listen between 85 to 100.

 

[Legolas]

Ked, nice

No but I usually listen between 85 to 100.

Ked, what is your current setup? Can you put in your signature please.

 

[bonzo75]

Ked, nice

Ked, what is your current setup? Can you put in your signature please.

None? Thought everyone knew? My signature says what I own and what's in the short list

 

[Legolas]

Ked, you should get a nice headphone setup. It is cheap, sounds amazing and is space no issue. At least you will be rocking at home.

I use headphones quite a lot.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Astro, I'm sure he does. On the trains, planes and automobiles he travels in on the way to these never ending demos.